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  1. #151
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    That's bullying, hedgehog, and well you know it.

  2. #152
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    point taken there Parts Old boy
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  3. #153
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    Less of the old.
    Seriously, the DF must decide where it stands: is it an armed forces, or the girl guides? Because it can't train to be one with the methods of the other.
    Consider this:
    Soldier on a checkpoint in Lebannon/patrol in Liberia/mobile in Kosovo etc.
    Local hairy comes up to him and starts to give him grief, and gets quite heated.
    If the soldier has been trained properly, well it's water off a duck's back.
    But if said soldier is a girl guide, then he'll get jumpy with all the noise and bad vibes. "Sarge, make the bad man stop." Point is, he's more likely to do something stupid and escalate, rather than defuse the situation.

  4. #154
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Exactly as I said

    except Parts is much more elequent

    no wonder hoho little legs loves him so much
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV
    My 2 cents:
    As I've said many times before, if someone feels they are being bullied, that is their opinion. Often it is not meant that way.
    The unfortunate thing is, the law invariably comes down on the side of the complainant, ie if you feel you are being bullied, then you are being bullied. This has led to some spurious/malicious cases in the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog
    no wonder hoho little legs loves him so much
    Just like jungle loves you
    Last edited by Parts; 27th June 2006 at 22:48.

  6. #156
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Just like jungle loves you
    I havent seen him in ages

    is he home yet
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  7. #157
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    Yeah, right.

  8. #158
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  9. #159
    Piss Taker MOB87's Avatar
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    Green party's ideas for the defence ammendment act?

  10. #160
    Teuton Foot Soldier ZULU's Avatar
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    "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

  11. #161
    2/Lt Bosco's Avatar
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    Well at least you didnt have to take the engineers on tactics and were told off by their pl sgt that we cant be shouting at them.(Same man had Supermacs half way though tactics)
    Lifes a bitch, so be her pimp!

  12. #162
    NOC G-2's Avatar
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    here we go again

    Seriously hedge, each member of this website is entitled to their opinions, and their anonimity should they so desire.
    One need not be qualified to hold a certain point of view.
    Absolutely right goldie but I think you would agree that a persons point of view or opinion can be miss-formed by a lack of personal experience or knowledge. For example if somebody were to start a thread on Garda training I could give my opinion but because I have no experience with said topic my opinion would be ill founded.
    However I think the DF has to change with the times. The youff of today will not tolerate being shouted at. Unlike in the past, when the natural order of things was that if someone shouted at you, it was intended to intimidate you into doing something, the current generation will react in the opposite manner and not do it.
    Unarguably correct that we must indeed change with the times but there are certain staples which must remain to some degree. Shouting is required in certain situations as I ilustrated in an earlier post, it can and is missused but that is being brought under control. I think when one enters the army one expects shouting to some point and if you dont like it then wrong job for ye. however this is all IMO but I thinks I'm right here .
    If these trigger mechanisms are not used in training then the reflex desired in a situation will not instinctively come about. Instead, the soldier will have to think about what "mode" he has to apply, but by that stage it may be 2 or 3 bullets too late.
    absolutely, the whole idea is to train someone to make snap decisions when the realy heavy s*** hits the fan. fact is you cannot train for a stressful situ without first being put in one.
    Its a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark.

  13. #163
    Armchair Admiral ocean's Avatar
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    G-2 I stand by my point of view - if you have the experience then I reckon you have the knowledge - I agree..........I don't agree that shouting is required......so you either accept or reject my experience........... - I have found that most who shout have lost it, and I have from time to time - but in my experience it is seldom the better option!

  14. #164
    not dead yet ollie's Avatar
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    my rec sgt was ex arw and he shouted all the time .

    theres no way i would say he lost it . what it did do as make sure that when he spoke we listened . in my opinion there is nothing wrong with shouting , be it to gain control of a situation or to get a point accross .

    whats wrong is shouting to bully or intimidate someone . its a fine line but shouting is part n parcel of army life . to get rid of it to protect the weak is wrong .

    soldiering is tough and for good reason its one of the few jobs where ur life depends on your training and by making the training easier no one wins and just puts more lives at risk
    Anyone need a spleen ?

  15. #165
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    I shouted.....be the first to admit..I never lost it.....I respected the people I trained..and gained some respect from those I trained..those who didn't accept how I trained..left...

    I felt no malice toward them...i didn't have the comforts of using other means..I used all lawful methods and adaptations of drills required to remove those who were not up to the job.

    I went through the system..I survived..and i was in no way a special case...I was neither brilliant or lacking..I accepted what had to be learned..and how it was taught. I thought no less of the people or the methods and moved on from the basic stages..and found once the initial steps were over the instructon was more refined.

    Induction..recruits.. what ever needs to be tough to find those who are willing to suceed the hard ships..if the hardships can't be endured at the base level how is the reality ever going to take effect

    Recruitment drives ..interviews..medicals, and ITs only find potentially likely candidates..its drill and instruction..and a little bit of hard ship that seperates the willing from the weak..its too,late to find out that some body is not up to the job when some body is shouting in their ear to save your life...

    Take from this what you want...I may have been wrong at the time..but I know..I had faith in the people who came out the far end of how they were instructed..many have moved on to better things..some joined the PDF.. some went totally opposite ways...but I can meet any of them today..yes they admit I was a little harsh at times...as i do admit..but none of them would ever change how it was done..and I feel the same..yes it was hard...tearful...sometimes soul destroying..but it was never personal..just aimed at me ..getting the best from me..trying my best..giving it my all. Some people need to be provoked in to doing thses things..if people fail to rise to the occasion under these conditions..maybe they should question their reasons for subjecting them selves to this regime in the first place
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  16. #166
    NOC G-2's Avatar
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    well it depends

    G-2 I stand by my point of view - if you have the experience then I reckon you have the knowledge - I agree..........I don't agree that shouting is required......so you either accept or reject my experience........... - I have found that most who shout have lost it, and I have from time to time - but in my experience it is seldom the better option!
    Of course, and as has been repeated so many times everyone regardless is entitled to their own opinion. I cant just outright rubbish your experience nor can anyone else however it would help a great deal if we knew a little more about it.
    My point is if what you mean in the above is refering to a civy street job (eg office) then shouting has no place whatsoever in it however I reach again for the combat exercise example wherein if orders are not shouted and bawled as loud as possible it is likely that those under your command will not hear you (f****** pelters an inner ear thingies). Now Ye have no obligation to answer but have you ever been on a combat exercise if so how did you find it what was it like. However if not may I suggest if you havent already join the RDF and get on the next camp you can, an then youl see what its like (be ready for shouting by the way some of em buggers are nuts).
    By the way I'm not out to rubbish your opinion but on the basis that we do not agree on this matter it would be helpful to know a little bit about what your basing this on. As for me I base it on my experiences with combat exercise's within the RDF (FCA at the time) and what I've done in the PDF up till now. This doesnt by any stretch make me right in this, that is just what I think and why I think it. I think hptmurphy has hit the mark there.
    Its a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark.

  17. #167
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    I don't shout...... I talk LOUDLY!!!
    Last edited by Docman; 4th July 2006 at 23:59.

  18. #168
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Voice projection?
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  19. #169
    Philomath Itchy's Avatar
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    Sure isn't it all character building anyway.

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