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  • #16
    Originally posted by Napp View Post
    Does the arty deploy overseas at all? Or can gunners just go over as riflemen?
    Yes, not sure of the particulars but my mate was a gunner and went overseas to Liberia presume it was as a support/heavy weapons coy but don't know for sure

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    • #17
      most militaries who use 120mm mortars have them as an artillery weapon, crewed by artillery personnel, the USMC and the french spring to mind for example.

      The Danes have just bought a load of 120mm mortars for deploymewnt to afghanistan and again crew them with lads from artillery units

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      • #18
        Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
        no Goldie - it's nothing to do with the British Army or what we do - it's about Mortars and the Artillery. Mortars are for Infantrymen, Artillery is for Gunners.

        so i don't see why you have Infantrymen on the Mortars at home to be replaced by Gunners on Operations.

        [edited to prevent any bitching]

        Originally posted by paul g View Post
        most militaries who use 120mm mortars have them as an artillery weapon, crewed by artillery personnel, the USMC and the french spring to mind for example.

        The Danes have just bought a load of 120mm mortars for deploymewnt to afghanistan and again crew them with lads from artillery units
        A heavy mortar (ie a 120) is an artillery weapons. Light (60) and medium (81) mortars are infantry weapons.

        RGJ, if a member of the DF wishes to extend their contract they have to serve overseas.... this means that members of the Artillery Corps can get the chance to serve overseas as the chances of us deploying a battery with the UN are slim..... although there is provision for it in the palette of forces.

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        • #19
          fair one Dev, and Paul G - thanks for the clarity and throwing some light on the subject.
          RGJ

          ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

          The Rifles

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          • #20
            Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
            no Goldie - it's nothing to do with the British Army or what we do - it's about Mortars and the Artillery. Mortars are for Infantrymen, Artillery is for Gunners.

            so i don't see why you have Infantrymen on the Mortars at home to be replaced by Gunners on Operations.
            The Irish Arty Corps took this view for a while after we got rid of the Brandt 120s. Fine, the heavy mortar was easy to move around but it was short ranged, relatively inaccurate and ugly (a bit like the cav). As such, the gentlemen of the corps treated the mortar with the distain normally reserved for the cav. The corps concentrated on the L118/L119 (of which numbers are limited) while retaining the 25pr for training purposes.

            This was all fine in theory but the government wasn't willing to deploy any of these weapons operationally so the arty ended up deploying with 81mm mortars. The higher ups in the arty world reckoned that pretty soon, the bean counters might start wondering why have the arty at all if the inf can fire the 81. The 120 mortar became our friend again.

            Just in time too as we ran out of parts for the 25prs and if the large batch of previously owned 120s hadn't come along, rdf arty would have died in the short term and without rdf support for courses etc, pdf arty mightn't have been far behind.

            The 17km from an L118 is in a different class to the 8km from the Ruag 120 but the skills required in terms of OP, CP, survey, signals and deployments generally are much the same. Maybe soon, the higher ups will deploy the L118 operationally and give our troops the increased protection offered by the superior weapon (the French brought the Caesar 155mm to the Leb) but until then the 120mm will continue to be our main raison d'etre.
            Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

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            • #21
              Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
              doesn't that mean these should be the people manning and firing it overseas where it surely matters most?

              why would anyone join the Mortar Platoon at home only to be replaced by a load of Gunners when on Operations?

              train as you fight, fight as you train.
              Many of the skills associated with Arty such as laying etc would obviously be transferable between Mortars and Light Arty like the 105.
              Since the Arty units are training in these skills all year round they would naturally more highly skilled than Infantry men who are not Arty specialists.

              Overseas we would want our best covering all the required bases so naturally the Arty man the 81's overseas.

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              • #22
                I heard the 2 FAR are the unofficial elite of the Arty .

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Archimedes View Post
                  The 17km from an L118 is in a different class to the 8km from the Ruag 120 but the skills required in terms of OP, CP, survey, signals and deployments generally are much the same. Maybe soon, the higher ups will deploy the L118 operationally and give our troops the increased protection offered by the superior weapon (the French brought the Caesar 155mm to the Leb) but until then the 120mm will continue to be our main raison d'etre.
                  But the 120 has a much bigger danger area in comparsion to the 105, twice the size!



                  page 16 & 17

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                  • #24
                    There are also rocket propelled 12mm rounds available.

                    On a side note,
                    Apparently the south Africans used to pour some petrol into the barrel for added propulsion of their 120mm rounds....crazy feckers.

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                    • #25
                      The 105 shell is a bit heavier but the 120 round contains a bit more HE as the steel walls of the mortar round don't need to be as thick. When it comes to effect on the ground, they are fairly similar.

                      Range is the king though. A 120 can cover approx 200 sq km, the L118 can cover over 900sq km - thats a lot of ground. The L118 also has higher accuracy, higher rate of fire (bipods on the Ruag jump a lot) as well as a 360 degree arc of fire without messing with a baseplate.
                      Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

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                      • #26
                        I suppose the point of 120mm mortars, regardless of who actually fires them, is that compared to a field gun, they are cheap, quick to set up and dismount, require less maintenance, spare parts and cheap to train on and cheap to fire as well as having a credible fire effect. Short range doesn't really matter if there is a longer-ranged weapon as the back up. I don't understand why the DF don't bring the 105s on tour, though.
                        Any thoughts on 155s?

                        regards
                        GttC

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ExGnr View Post
                          I heard the 2 FAR are the unofficial elite of the Arty .
                          No. Its an oxymoron.


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                            I suppose the point of 120mm mortars, regardless of who actually fires them, is that compared to a field gun, they are cheap, quick to set up and dismount, require less maintenance, spare parts and cheap to train on and cheap to fire as well as having a credible fire effect. Short range doesn't really matter if there is a longer-ranged weapon as the back up. I don't understand why the DF don't bring the 105s on tour, though.
                            Any thoughts on 155s?

                            regards
                            GttC
                            Probably unnecessary and we couldn't afford them anyway, but if the DF were going to pick one, maybe something lightweight like the M777?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                              No. Its an oxymoron.
                              Oxymoron, how so ?
                              The 2FAR have a reputation for being the quickest into action, quickest set up etc out of all the other Regiments, I have witnessed it myself.
                              Not to mention in the Infantry role they have a much higher representation of trained snipers per head than any other unit in the Army, besides the A.R.W that is.

                              So unofficially at least they would be elite Arty in comparison to other Arty regiments in the PDF.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ExGnr View Post
                                Oxymoron, how so ?
                                The 2FAR have a reputation for being the quickest into action, quickest set up etc out of all the other Regiments, I have witnessed it myself.
                                Not to mention in the Infantry role they have a much higher representation of trained snipers per head than any other unit in the Army, besides the A.R.W that is.

                                So unofficially at least they would be elite Arty in comparison to other Arty regiments in the PDF.
                                2 Fuck All Running aren't the elite of anything.

                                As for the sniper thing, numbers don't mean much. How many members of that unit instruct on the Basic Sniper Cse that runs in the East?
                                Last edited by Hello Alaska; 24 September 2011, 18:18.

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