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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Ask the RDF Rep of PCM then..... yes there is one and he is an RDF sergeant who instructs on PCM courses.

    There has been a recent move away from sports parachuting towards tactical/military parachuting.
    No there hasn't.

    No Unit outside of the ARW has any kind of parachuting capability. The DF itself has no kind of parachuting doctrine.

    All this talk of moving away from sports parachuting is bollocks. Same with the talk of getting recce detachments trained in jumping, there's a million and one things recce detachments need before learning how to jump.

    /Rant.

  2. #27
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    In 252 an 253, they basically throw themselves off the ramp.
    They look as if they are HALO/HAHO jumps not static line.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hello Alaska View Post
    No there hasn't.

    No Unit outside of the ARW has any kind of parachuting capability. The DF itself has no kind of parachuting doctrine.

    All this talk of moving away from sports parachuting is bollocks. Same with the talk of getting recce detachments trained in jumping, there's a million and one things recce detachments need before learning how to jump.

    /Rant.
    See An Cosantoir:

    - the course about 2 years ago that was covered includes jumping for AW139s with kit

    - a CAPSTONE exercise covered included recce insertation by parachute

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    - the course about 2 years ago that was covered includes jumping for AW139s with kit
    Like I said, there's no Unit or doctrine within the DF, outside of the ARW, for para operations.

    They can talk about military parachuting courses all they want, it has no application within the DF.

    - a CAPSTONE exercise covered included recce insertation by parachute
    Again, nothing to do with what Recce detachments are actually instructed on or part of their doctrine.

    It was just something to try make the Ex a little bit more gucci. Why a detachment which only operates out to 10k beyond the FEBA for the most part feels the need to jump in is beyond me.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    See An Cosantoir:

    - the course about 2 years ago that was covered includes jumping for AW139s with kit

    - a CAPSTONE exercise covered included recce insertation by parachute
    The DF run both static line and free fall parachute courses.
    The static line course is a 'military' type using round canopies and are basic courses with no experience required.
    The free fall parachute course is a 'sports' type course using ram-air parachutes and only for experienced persons who meet the strict application criteria.

    There will be no move away from 'sports' parachuting in the DF especially with the success of the Black Knights parachute team.
    The DF encourage the partake in sports especially adventure sports and run courses in kayaking, mountaineering, rock climbing, sailing, scuba diving etc and units also run their own competitions and events.

  5. #30
    Lower than a snakes balls Duffman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tezza View Post
    Sorry for being off topic but i think that is counter productive, if you do a course you want to be able to show what you have done, be it a marksmans badge, parachute wings or whatever. Having pride in ones unit and individual endeavors in my opinion is very important, even something as having a unit insignia on ones unifrom can do this I think..
    +1 Tezza

    /Topic

    Quote Originally Posted by Hello Alaska View Post
    All this talk of moving away from sports parachuting is bollocks. Same with the talk of getting recce detachments trained in jumping, there's a million and one things recce detachments need before learning how to jump.

    /Rant.
    Well said Alaska. Here was me thinking that there was a superduper sneaky beeky elite airborne recce ellement emerging.

    So in effect (and not taking away from the achievement and dedication of the lads) its a Millitary sports club. With people from the DF involved who are trained for the millitary application of the said sport. A lot like the ADG
    "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

    "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

  6. #31
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    I flew as crewman on two jump flights in 252, to operate the ramp in flight. In both cases, the jumpers went out in a bunch. One was a tooled-up ARW group and the other was the Black Knights. We dropped them from about 15,000 feet. I also flew on two or three jump flights in 250, where they did use the static lines as well as jump off the ramp. That was back in 1994/5.

    regards
    GttC

  7. #32
    Corporal Mr. Tezza's Avatar
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    I think they do the static line jumping from the EC135s now, saw a vid of it being done a few years back...

    So the basic course (static line) is open to everyone but the advanced course is opnly open to people who've completed the basic course or is it only for the ARW?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tezza View Post
    I think they do the static line jumping from the EC135s now, saw a vid of it being done a few years back...
    Ive never seen the EC135 used but I have seen the AW139 used a few times.

    So the basic course (static line) is open to everyone but the advanced course is opnly open to people who've completed the basic course or is it only for the ARW?
    The basic static line course is open to all but the free fall course is only for those who are experienced in the type and meet the application criteria.
    There is no requirement to pass the basic static line course for the free fall course.
    The ARW normally do the DF static line course but go overseas to do a HALO course.

  9. #34
    Corporal Mr. Tezza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    Ive never seen the EC135 used but I have seen the AW139 used a few times.
    Sorry I was probably wrong! was a while since I seen the vid, they were fairly cramped inside so i thought it was the EC135... my bad been in the AW139 alrite doin heli drills but not the EC135...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    The basic static line course is open to all but the free fall course is only for those who are experienced in the type and meet the application criteria.
    There is no requirement to pass the basic static line course for the free fall course.
    The ARW normally do the DF static line course but go overseas to do a HALO course.
    Actually think I heard something about them going overseas to do parachuting stuff alrite, wasn't there a pic somewhere before of some ARW guys in the states at some parachuting event? I don't have the pic but I do remember seeing it somewhere before...
    Last edited by Mr. Tezza; 30th November 2011 at 01:57.

  10. #35
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    HALO is done overseas but also is done from the back of the CASA...

  11. #36
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Just to clarify lads.PCM no longer conduct the Basic(static line) course for the DF.They only concentrate on sports jumping now.PTS(Parachute training school)*is the new authority for conducting static line military jumping for the DF.SF jumping is covered by the ARW.
    There is a whole new TI on Parachuting in the DF out since the summer listing who does what,how and when and more importatnly who funds what.


    *PTS is an ex-establishment school of the Air Corps comprised of DF parachuting instructors and Jumpmasters.
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    Ive never seen the EC135 used but I have seen the AW139 used a few times.

    The basic static line course is open to all .
    Seemingly there hasnt been the major uptake on Parachute (Sports) Course that was

    anticipated- there is talk of opening the course to a wider audience not just PDF.

    The RDF- the NSR - The ONET - the Red Cross (permanent Staf only) and the CD are all going to be invited to nominate personnell.

    Its all to do with inclusiveness and other such bull shite terms.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  13. #38
    Flanders Pidgeon Murderer Captain Edmund Blackadder's Avatar
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  14. #39
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    Did I miss the part where they explained what the strategic use of parachuting in Ireland was?

  15. #40
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    yes

    its very important at airshows

    military celebrations

    and random public events...
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    yes

    its very important at airshows

    military celebrations

    and random public events...
    Don't forget a random jump in an Ex too.

  17. #42
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    How else would you deliver the ball to the all blacks V Munster game...

    Oh, Wait, that's what fastroping is for...


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    How else would you deliver the ball to the all blacks V Munster game...

    Oh, Wait, that's what fastroping is for...


    We've recce detachments using Nissan's as recce vehicles, aren't even able to fast rope, don't even have decent raingear... But yes, let's teach them how to parachute.

  19. #44
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    @HA, Isn't that what the shiny new RG 32s are for? Fast rope out of what? raingear? Army solution in a rainy country? Buy yer own.
    shite but true.

    regards
    GttC

  20. #45
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    Err, would we not be better off concentrateing on an air mobile group, [helicopters] and , maybe, just maybe an amphibious landing group, and just leave the parachuteing to the danger wing and perhaps a small select reccee unit?
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
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  22. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    @HA, Isn't that what the shiny new RG 32s are for? Fast rope out of what? raingear? Army solution in a rainy country? Buy yer own.
    shite but true.

    regards
    GttC
    RG32's aren't for Recce Detachments, even then they're not suited to the role... For Close Recce at least. Choppers. Buy your own, isn't a good enough answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey View Post
    Err, would we not be better off concentrateing on an air mobile group, [helicopters] and , maybe, just maybe an amphibious landing group, and just leave the parachuteing to the danger wing and perhaps a small select reccee unit?
    There's no need for a parachute capability in Recce outside of the Wing.

    Close Recce doesn't go far enough to warrant it, Medium Recce is vehicle based and Stand Off Recce doesn't need it. All the long range stuff is done by the ARW, who already have that capability.

    Which is why all the talk in the DF of getting Recce detachments or Snipers para qualified is so pointless.

  23. #47
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    @HA, so what are the RG32s for then? Being shiny in the Curragh? As for buy yer own, well, I was expected, in the FCA, to fund my own combats and lots of other items and the same attitude prevailed later in the allegedly grown-up Air Corps (to a lesser extent, but it was still there) and from all I've read on this forum, it's an attitude in rude and unchanging health, which is not helped by the gear queers who insist on trying to dress like SF types at their own expense. I learned from experience that the only way to stop this shit was to refuse to play the game. I recall it coming to a head about lanyards and other items that were later determined to be the Minister's responsibility. If you are not being provided with safe and clean wet gear, then kick up a stink, especially if it concerns your health and safety. The DF should have learnt from the hearing debacle and if a stone-age attitude still prevails, then rattle a few chains about it. That might sound trite to you, from an ex-er, but sometimes you have to make noise. I'll bet the CoS has a fine set of wet gear. I don't see why his troops, who he is sworn to support, should have to operate to a lesser standard.

    parachuting? really, unless it has an operational role that helis can't deliver for non-ARW, why bother? Crazy thing is, you'll meet more DF at Clonbulloge under canopies than in the Curragh.

    regards
    GttC

  24. #48
    Lower than a snakes balls Duffman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hello Alaska View Post
    Which is why all the talk in the DF of getting Recce detachments or Snipers para qualified is so pointless.
    +1

    Whats all this about PDF lads being able to get rain gear? I'd of imagined thats hardly a sought after piece of kit?
    "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

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  25. #49
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    The 2003-2010 pattern (seyntex) was grand when new but after a couple of washes was shite at keeping ou the water.In fact it acts in the opposite way like a sponge.
    The 2011)Cooneen,watts and stone stuff is worse.Like the old oil skins.
    Alot of lads are still buying BA Goretex suits for field wear.Sad thing is their was a genuine PTFE(goretex is a brand name) suit trialled in '02 and Officers going out to the Congo as UN observers get a variant of this.The rest of us get shite.
    As per.
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  26. #50
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    Not wanting to derail the thread but does using any of the nikwax products techwash and the like help this problem a tall? I didnt fwant to risk ruining a set of good wetgear to find out!!
    Train Hard Fight Easy!!!!

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