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  • Apologies if this has already been posted, but spotted a book by a former Air Corps HEMS pilot on the web. "Medevac: Flying the Irish Air Corps HEMS Mission" by Declan Daly, available on Amazon, not sure about regular bookshops



    Haven't gotten a copy yet, but well done to the author on writing his story on the service.

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    • 6 week extension for ICRR

      In a statement issued by Irish Community Rapid Response (ICRR) Chairman John Finnegan on Friday, it was announced that the Air Ambulance service based in Rathcoole, Co. Cork has been given a six week extension to operations. The service was due to end last Friday 3rd April due to a lack of funds.

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      • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
        Ropebag has a point, though. If the DF arenโ€™t careful, if one does materialise it will be seen as being a branch of Irish Aid that happens to be manned by the Air Corps.

        Thatโ€™s what happened to the helicopters, the public perceives them as being Air Ambulance first, bad weather delivery service for animal fodder and polling boxes second, and a military asset way down the line.
        Wasn't like that when we first got the new Helis.Military support was their primary focus. Somehow we got dragged back into providing a service that Civi assets should provide and the Military training support dwindled. Between 2006-2010 I was in and out of Helis all the time doing Infantry training with them. Now? Forget about it.And it was such a good start too. A massive pity.
        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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        • Originally posted by apod View Post
          Wasn't like that when we first got the new Helis.Military support was their primary focus. Somehow we got dragged back into providing a service that Civi assets should provide and the Military training support dwindled. Between 2006-2010 I was in and out of Helis all the time doing Infantry training with them. Now? Forget about it.And it was such a good start too. A massive pity.
          From the outside it certainly looked as if the AC pimped itself for the Air Ambulance role and embraced it with the gusto of a service pining for the SAR days.

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          • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
            Ropebag has a point, though. If the DF arenโ€™t careful, if one does materialise it will be seen as being a branch of Irish Aid that happens to be manned by the Air Corps.

            Thatโ€™s what happened to the helicopters, the public perceives them as being Air Ambulance first, bad weather delivery service for animal fodder and polling boxes second, and a military asset way down the line.
            If the assets arenโ€™t otherwise employed I mean.... itโ€™s a capability that can be sold easier. We have a C130 that can do small drop and equipment rotations, HADR, CASEVAC, support for Irish Aid etc

            Remember when Niamh went to Asia?


            Originally posted by apod View Post
            Wasn't like that when we first got the new Helis.Military support was their primary focus. Somehow we got dragged back into providing a service that Civi assets should provide and the Military training support dwindled. Between 2006-2010 I was in and out of Helis all the time doing Infantry training with them. Now? Forget about it.And it was such a good start too. A massive pity.
            Remember where the whole EAS came from?

            The closure of Roscommon A&E it was that simple

            Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            Networking.
            There was quite a loud group think that said the AIII should have been retained on the strength for pure training purposes. There was nothing wrong with them, AFAIK from an airframe or avionics point of view, they were single engine, analog cockpit kludge, but the French are only just getting rid of theirs, and India still have their variants working frontline in the Himalayas.
            New pilots learn the joys of heli flying the old fashioned way, without FADEC to mind them, meanwhile the PBI get to learn about junping in and out of helis, Dropshorts get to learn about underslinging a 105 or its ammo, and a spare capacity for when the snow falls or the rain gets too wet.
            Afaik an AIII canโ€™t lift a 105mm (AW139 can but not very far), I think I saw pics of it lifting a Brandt 120mm (of it could have been the Puma)

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            • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
              From the outside it certainly looked as if the AC pimped itself for the Air Ambulance role and embraced it with the gusto of a service pining for the SAR days.
              thats certainly the impression i got - one metric is the social media posts the AC produce: anything air ambulance related gets the full treatment - even if all it was was was a 30 minute hop - but military exercises barely got a mention...

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              • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                thats certainly the impression i got - one metric is the social media posts the AC produce: anything air ambulance related gets the full treatment - even if all it was was was a 30 minute hop - but military exercises barely got a mention...
                And when the AC Air Ambulance was unavailable due to crew shortages, and the charity funded Cork based aircraft had to slot in to cover the shortfall.....
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                  thats certainly the impression i got - one metric is the social media posts the AC produce: anything air ambulance related gets the full treatment - even if all it was was was a 30 minute hop - but military exercises barely got a mention...
                  As I said

                  EAS became a thing because the Government downgrade the A&E in Roscommon and the only way to pacify the local TDs was to offer an air ambulance service. Remember also EAS was a trial only at first.

                  EAS social media leads to universal praise. That 30 min hop could be the saving of a life

                  Tac Ops social media leads to a lot of why do we need an army, PESCO, EU Army bla bla

                  Also importantly all the resources are put into EAS and if any is left available and there is a serviceable aircraft the Tac oPs get done
                  Last edited by DeV; 9 June 2020, 11:33.

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                  • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                    thats certainly the impression i got - one metric is the social media posts the AC produce: anything air ambulance related gets the full treatment - even if all it was was was a 30 minute hop - but military exercises barely got a mention...
                    Why are we surprised? The AC was never sized to do all the jobs it is being called to do now. In some ways it is like the old days when Charlie and co would use the Dauphins to open a supermarket in the back of beyond. The helicopter fleet was sized to provide basic lift capacity for the army and to cover pilot training. Today to cover the lack of planning by various government departments over years the solution of last resort is called into action, the DFs Thus we have almost constant fire fighting tasks and the summer is only starting in addition to the EAS, which not only blocks an aircraft but 4-5 air crews. Thats means the capacity to support military exercises and then post about them is extremely limited.

                    But is it that bad, providing EAS, doing medical transfers, doing fire fighting these are all positives for the image of the defence forces in the wider public. In western countries where the military is close to the wider public you find it is better funded and recruitment is less an issue as members feel the respect of the public.

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                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      As I said

                      EAS became a thing because the Government downgrade the A&E in Roscommon and the only way to pacify the local TDs was to offer an air ambulance service. Remember also EAS was a trial only at first.

                      EAS social media leads to universal praise. That 30 min hop could be the saving of a life

                      Tac Ops social media leads to a lot of why do we need an army, PESCO, EU Army bla bla

                      Also importantly all the resources are put into EAS and if any is left available and there is a serviceable aircraft the Tac oPs get done
                      i'm not just talking about now, i'm talking historically - go back to @apod's post about the availability of helicopters for military exerises before the air ambulance service was set up: when 'green stuff' was the AC 139's bread and butter you barely heard a peep out of them, but as soon as something that didn't look like sitting in a wet field and lugging dirty soldiers about the place heaved into view, the twitter account lit up...

                      its pretty easy to tell which is the task thats more to their tastes.

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                      • Originally posted by apod View Post
                        Wasn't like that when we first got the new Helis.Military support was their primary focus. Somehow we got dragged back into providing a service that Civi assets should provide and the Military training support dwindled. Between 2006-2010 I was in and out of Helis all the time doing Infantry training with them. Now? Forget about it.And it was such a good start too. A massive pity.
                        Should the civil defence be running choppers?

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                        • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                          Should the civil defence be running choppers?
                          As a volunteer force?
                          What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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                          • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                            Should the civil defence be running choppers?
                            Civil defence is paid out of the same budget. ยด
                            The main issue is that the "civvy" missions had not been planned for in the force size thus leaving a major shortfall for military operations. Plenty of air forces provide EAS in other countries without issue, but the mission had been planned for.

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                            • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                              Plenty of air forces provide EAS in other countries without issue, but the mission had been planned for.
                              Honestly I am struggling to think of one other than Ireland that provides an air ambulance service for civilians other than on a very specialist and very rare occasion. Air ambulances both fixed wing and rotary are kind of regarded as a separate institution / service that is for civilians by civilians.

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                              • Originally posted by Anzac View Post
                                Honestly I am struggling to think of one other than Ireland that provides an air ambulance service for civilians other than on a very specialist and very rare occasion. Air ambulances both fixed wing and rotary are kind of regarded as a separate institution / service that is for civilians by civilians.
                                An example is Germany, although it has many civilian air ambulance providers ADAC & DRF, cover is also provided by helicopters from federal police and the army.

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