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  • #31
    The AW 139 is ideal for the HEMS role. Similar sized machines have been doing it for years. The EC135 is actually the machine of choice for other HEMS agencies.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
      The AW 139 is ideal for the HEMS role. Similar sized machines have been doing it for years. The EC135 is actually the machine of choice for other HEMS agencies.
      The Air Corps pair came supplied with equipment for this role, but there is no provision for people to work on the victim, same as the A111 which was used in this role too, i do not believe sufficent space exists for work to be done in the AW139, and I believe ''bigger is better'' in this suitation, however, subject to the opinion of paramadics or/and doctors who have worked in those conditions, I may change my mind. In which case, convert all 5 for this role and buy a grown-up helicopter for troop transport, by all means.
      Last edited by Turkey; 17 January 2012, 21:23.
      "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
      Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
      Illegitimi non carborundum

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      • #33
        HEMS is not Air Ambulance.


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

        Comment


        • #34
          the AW 139's are not suitable for the job
          i do not believe sufficent space exists for work to be done in the AW139, and I believe ''bigger is better'' in this suitation
          Not sure where you came up with this tack. The EC135 is 'THE' HEMS machine in Europe and most of the US. The AW139 is substantially bigger then the 135. If it can be done in the 135 it most certainly can be done in a 139.

          PS dont know why you want a bigger troop carrier, if the fleet serviceability was any way reasonable they could carry up to 48 troops per lift, how many more do you want?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Tadpole View Post
            Not sure where you came up with this tack. The EC135 is 'THE' HEMS machine in Europe and most of the US. The AW139 is substantially bigger then the 135. If it can be done in the 135 it most certainly can be done in a 139.

            PS dont know why you want a bigger troop carrier, if the fleet serviceability was any way reasonable they could carry up to 48 troops per lift, how many more do you want?
            Bit of head scratchin going on at this point, what way do we define HEMS, if its delivering a pair of paramedics to a incident site then a R22 could do that within limits, if we want to work on people then we are talking about something with room to work and decent headroom. Several years ago an A111 was bring a serious cardiac case to Dublin, the helicopter had to land several times when the stretcher case required urgent attention, in the case of the EC135 stretcher cases are loaded into the vehicle thru clam doors in the rear of the cabin, how much of an improvment is it over the A111. I think as a vehicle for moveing injured people then the EC 135 is probally more then adquate, but what if the situtation demands more. I think we should start near the top, not near the bottem, after all we are talking about assets with a 30 year + life expectancy.
            Anyway, the fixed wing is another issue too.
            As for your second point, I understood at 100% serviceablity[happens from time to time] then the lift capability is 60, but my answer is yes I want more, it has been touched on a few times on this board but never, in my veiw, satisfactoraly, Anyway this is off-topic and I do not want to pi$$ off this moderator , so perhaps another thread?
            "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
            Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
            Illegitimi non carborundum

            Comment


            • #36
              Turkey, come on now. The stretcher in the back of an a3 was little more than a hospital trolley. The Lifeport fitted in the back of the current helis is what you would get in a&e, complete with all the machines that go ping.


              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

              Comment


              • #37
                But Turkey, the 139 is much bigger then the 135. I just dont see why you consider that the 139 is not up to the job of HEMS.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Tadpole View Post
                  But Turkey, the 139 is much bigger then the 135. I just dont see why you consider that the 139 is not up to the job of HEMS.
                  I donno to be honest, I am just concerned that those in charge may end up ''fitting up'' a role for a helicopter , rather then considering a helicopter for a role.

                  Goldie, I honestly do not understand your last 4 posts on the subject, and therefore am not inclined to comment.
                  "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                  Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                  Illegitimi non carborundum

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Turkey View Post

                    Goldie, I honestly do not understand your last 4 posts on the subject, and therefore am not inclined to comment.
                    Perhaps this thread is not for you then?


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                      Perhaps this thread is not for you then?
                      I am more inclined to think it's not for you to be honest.
                      "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                      Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                      Illegitimi non carborundum

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Anyway, spotted this while reading up on the web: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...309831059.html
                        To be honest this might be a better solution, 'cause when you think on it, why should the military provide air ambulance services ?
                        Not entirely my veiw , just a thought.

                        I only spotted one dreadful pun myself.
                        Last edited by Turkey; 18 January 2012, 01:21.
                        "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                        Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                        Illegitimi non carborundum

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Turkey View Post
                          why should the military provide air ambulance services ?
                          They have provided it since they got the AIII?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I know that, but they also use to provide SAR, anything can change......
                            Seriously, there is no reason why they should do so, is there?
                            "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                            Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                            Illegitimi non carborundum

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Turkey View Post
                              I am more inclined to think it's not for you to be honest.
                              WHat is your difficulty?
                              What term do you misunderstand?

                              HEMS?
                              Lifeport
                              Stretcher?
                              Heli-cop-ter?

                              Try some debate turkey rather than "I honestly do not understand your last 4 posts on the subject"
                              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                              You are wrong.
                              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                              Turkey, come on now. The stretcher in the back of an a3 was little more than a hospital trolley. The Lifeport fitted in the back of the current helis is what you would get in a&e, complete with all the machines that go ping.
                              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                              HEMS is not Air Ambulance.
                              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                              The AW 139 is ideal for the HEMS role. Similar sized machines have been doing it for years. The EC135 is actually the machine of choice for other HEMS agencies.
                              Hardly rocket science, is it? The link you quote in post 41 is the transplant debacle waiting to happen again. It has been well discussed here as to why certain private operators are unsuitable for the role. The Air Corps have the proper equipment for the job already(unuaually) it makes sense to let them do the job rather than (similar to the SAR contract) paying a private company to let you use the equipment that you have paid for, so thay can operate the service for you.
                              What the Air Corps have been doing in the last few month is not HEMS(Helicopter Emergency Medical Service), it was patient transfer. It was like the Ambulance of old, that had an ambulance driver, and a nurse, and did little more than make sure you didn't fall out of the ambulance on the way to hospital. HEMS is a declared ambulance asset, under the control of ambulance control, that will dispatch a heli to a tasking based on a request via the 999/112 system or other means within the HSE. HEMS crew is usually Pilot, Co-Pilot, Doc and Paramedic. If the AC were available to respond to a call in the last 12 months with a crew like that, with no prior notice, then feel free to correct me.


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Hi there
                                HEMS is time-critical roadside repair and air ambulance is the carriage of a (less time critical)stable patient. The old Alouette was designed to carry two wounded soldiers on basic stretchers across the cabin. The Air Corps never did this, despite it being common practise elsewhere with A IIIs. The Air Corps carried one ambulance-compatible stretcher along the cabin, as well as seating for a doctor, a nurse and a crewman and various bits of medical kit. As for the 139 landing on some of our roads to do a HEMS lift, I'm not so sure about that. It's got a big enough rotor footprint and a strong downwash to rule out a lot of minor/secondary roads.

                                regards
                                GttC

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