Thanks Thanks:  4
Likes Likes:  27
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 93
  1. #1
    Brigadier General
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,585
    Post Thanks / Like

    Air Corps and Mountain Rescue Joint Exercise

    Air Corps in joint rescue drills with volunteers

    THE AGUSTA Westland AW139 is the workhorse of the Air Corps. First purchased by the Defence Forces in 2006, these helicopters are capable of all kinds of roles. They can carry 2½ tonnes of equipment and deploy troops.

    They helped put out gorse fires in Donegal last May and also provide an air ambulance service. They even come equipped with an incubator for premature babies.

    On Saturday they were used in a training exercise to familiarise mountain rescue services with their operations.

    Two dozen mountain rescue volunteers from Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim and Mayo gathered on a bitterly cold day in Finner Camp, Co Donegal, for an event in which teams practised getting in and out of the helicopter during the day and at night.

    Finner range, where the Army carries out target practice, provided the dramatic backdrop for crews to be landed in an isolated area at night.

    The exercise was meant to simulate the frequent occurrence of mountain rescue teams having to be deployed in isolated areas after nightfall for climbers who have lost their way in the dark.

    The Air Corps provides back-up for the Irish Coast Guard helicopter and then the Garda helicopter, which are deployed in the first instance in mountain rescue.

    With so many mountain rescue incidents, especially during times of severe weather, the Air Corps frequently finds itself pressed into action, as it was three years ago when two missing snowboarders sparked a huge rescue operation on Lugnaquilla mountain in Co Wicklow.

    The Air Corps helicopters also have an annual date on Reek Sunday, when dozens of pilgrims, many of whom have serious difficulties in making the climb, find themselves stranded on Croagh Patrick.

    The six AW139s are based in Baldonnel Aerodrome. With a cruising speed of 157 knots per hour (290km/h) they can reach even the most isolated parts of the country within an hour.

    They can deploy up to 12 rescuers and eight with a stretcher.

    On Saturday night, pilots Capt Séamus McNamara and Capt Colin Duffy used the most up-to-date night vision equipment to land the helicopter in the dark.

    Though the AW139 has a height of five metres, passengers can be dangerously vulnerable to the rotor blades if the helicopter pitches down at an angle on a mountain.

    The mountain rescue crews also trained on the smaller Eurocopter EC135, which can carry a stretcher and two paramedics. It is the same helicopter that is used by the Garda.

    Donegal mountain rescuer Séamus Bradley, who took part in Saturday’s event, said such exercises were an important part of their training.

    Bradley, who is the chairman of Mountain Rescue Ireland, which co-ordinates activities among all of Ireland’s 12 teams and 350 volunteers, said the Air Corps provided a “very essential back-up service” to rescuers.

    “Going back historically, the Air Corps was the primary search and rescue asset for many years.

    The Air Corps helicopters are very good at moving a lot of people about, while the Coast Guard helicopter has a very specialised paramedic ambulance service.

    The two roles complement each other. The Air Corps is a very professional asset for us,” he said.

    During 2010, which was marked by two particularly cold periods, the mountain rescue service had 76 callouts.

    Air Corps spokesman Capt Brendan O’Dowd said: “Helicopters can be a hazardous environment and the aim is to make everybody aware of our crew procedures and of the safe way to operate the helicopter in the event that we ever have to work with them.”

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...311332164.html
    Also a nice slide show of the training exercise.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/sl...-rescue/#video

  2. Thanks Mr. Tezza thanked for this post
  3. #2
    CQMS jack nastyface's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    225
    Post Thanks / Like
    'Helicopters can be a hazardous environment' So about a week after a report on a tragic accident, an orginization, which with all due respect, it has to be said has not the best safety record, starts flying a bunch of civvies around, at night, in whats basically a flying fiat. You can call me Mr pickey, but is that altogether wise?

  4. #3
    C/S tonyrdf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Where everyone's favourite colour is blue.
    Posts
    387
    Post Thanks / Like
    Considering the amount of flights undertaken and the conditions in which they are taken, I'd say 2 crashes in ten years isn't a bad safety record, compared to other military flying organizations.
    Im Ron Burgendy??

  5. #4
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    907
    Post Thanks / Like
    Considering the amount of flights undertaken and the conditions in which they are taken, I'd say 2 crashes in ten years isn't a bad safety record
    Have a look at the PC9 thread. That may give you a better understanding of the big picture. Also. I think you may be surprised by the lack of extraordinary conditions these accidents have happened in. Certainly very little to do with military operations or military style flying.

    Just noticed something on the slide show. In all of the night vision photographs the tail pylon of the 139 is a substantially different color. I haven't any idea why as the main part of the aircraft, despite being made of different panels at different angles to the camera are the same color. Any engineers have any ideas?

  6. #5
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    907
    Post Thanks / Like
    Actually, looking at the daylight photos the tail pylon looks a darker color there as well. Has this entire pylon been changed since delivery?

  7. #6
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    The Big Smoke
    Posts
    5,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jack nastyface View Post
    'Helicopters can be a hazardous environment' So about a week after a report on a tragic accident, an orginization, which with all due respect, it has to be said has not the best safety record, starts flying a bunch of civvies around, at night, in whats basically a flying fiat. You can call me Mr pickey, but is that altogether wise?
    Picky is the not the word I would use to describe you for that comment....something along the lines of a loop de loop loo lah might be more appropriate.

  8. #7
    Brigadier General
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,837
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jack nastyface View Post
    'Helicopters can be a hazardous environment' So about a week after a report on a tragic accident, an orginization, which with all due respect, it has to be said has not the best safety record, starts flying a bunch of civvies around, at night, in whats basically a flying fiat. You can call me Mr pickey, but is that altogether wise?
    Go back to P.ie

  9. #8
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    3,842
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jack nastyface View Post
    'Helicopters can be a hazardous environment' So about a week after a report on a tragic accident, an orginization, which with all due respect, it has to be said has not the best safety record, starts flying a bunch of civvies around, at night, in whats basically a flying fiat. You can call me Mr pickey, but is that altogether wise?
    Flying Fiat:


    How many of these do the AC have?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  10. #9
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    22,188
    Post Thanks / Like
    Lazy jouro!!!!

    Never heard of the Garda helicopter being deployed for mountain rescue (missing persons maybe) - oh and there are 2 Garda helicopters!

    The AC EC135s are different from the GASU EC135s!
    Last edited by DeV; 6th February 2012 at 19:10.

  11. #10
    Sergeant
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    97
    Post Thanks / Like
    jesus lads, does no one see this as a good thing?

    training a mountain rescue team in helicopter operations. You may need them one day and maybe the air corps or coastguard will get them to the scene to save a life.
    Last edited by balkanhawk; 6th February 2012 at 19:07. Reason: Spelling

  12. #11
    C/S tonyrdf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Where everyone's favourite colour is blue.
    Posts
    387
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have read both accident reports. I would still be happy to take a flight in an air craft flown by an Air Corps Crew.
    Im Ron Burgendy??

  13. Likes DeV, Come-quickly, Turkey liked this post
  14. #12
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    22,188
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by balkanhawk View Post
    jesus lads, does no one see this as a good thing?

    training a mountain rescue team in helicopter operations. You may need them one day and maybe the air corps or coastguard will get them to the scene to save a life.
    It happens all the time..... one of the reasons being it was a recommendation of the AAIU report on the Tramore accident as the first rescuers on the scene were not aware of the dangers.

  15. #13
    C/S
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,755
    Post Thanks / Like
    It's more to stop unknowing persons from walking into tail rotors or directing helicopters onto unsafe landing sites or not controlling their personal equipment when they board.

    regards
    GttC

  16. #14
    C/S
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    335
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by tonyrdf View Post
    I have read both accident reports. I would still be happy to take a flight in an air craft flown by an Air Corps Crew.
    I think you're missing the point, I don't think anyone is saying that the AC and crew's are unsafe. However given the nature of the flying involved the rate of accidents and incidents is higher then equivalent operators. Very little if any of the AC flying bears any resemblance to military flying.

    Maybe reread the reports and think about the organizational issues that are highlighted or at least mentioned and try and assess how they might affect overall flight safety and you may start to see a pattern.

  17. #15
    CQMS jack nastyface's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    225
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    Go back to P.ie
    Why? Does P.ie have thing about the potential for people getting killed, and risk management?

  18. #16
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,753
    Post Thanks / Like
    A foreign friend of mine was a volunteer in his home province's mountain rescue and worked frequently with his country's airforce in Pumas (helicopters were neccesary in a larger proportion of scenarios due to distance involved. )

    They worked safely in this environment because they trained regularly and got to know the crews.


    Nice to see it happening here.
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  19. #17
    Brigadier General
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,837
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jack nastyface View Post
    Why? Does P.ie have thing about the potential for people getting killed, and risk management?
    Your enthusiasm to bad mouth the AIR CORPS Would seen to me that you have a personal gripe with them. ?
    Last edited by sofa; 7th February 2012 at 00:31.

  20. #18
    C/S
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,755
    Post Thanks / Like
    Why is the AC less than wonderful? refusal to learn, refusal to listen, refusal to change. I remember pilots going on exchange programmes to the RAF. Wonderful stuff and all that. They came back, told their peers what went on and the gen was diffused to the pilot body. Problem was, it didn't filter down to the NCOs and men, who make up the majority of a unit so a select few got the knowledge so the amount contributed to the corporate memory was small to start with and immediately began to dwindle as pilots left or shifted units. Other ranks didn't get to do exchange posts so it was a lost cause from the start.
    Working with the MR and Civ Def and the rest is good because it spreads the knowledge base, irons out problems in a benign environment and improves public perception of the Don.

    regards
    GttC

  21. #19
    C/S
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    373
    Post Thanks / Like
    Didn't NCO's want to be pilots too at some stage?

    Nice article from the Times - good to see all concerned making an effort over a weekend.

  22. #20
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    The Hacienda
    Posts
    5,511
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Lazy jouro!!!!

    Never heard of the Garda helicopter being deployed for mountain rescue (missing persons maybe) - oh and there are 2 Garda helicopters!

    The AC EC135s are different from the GASU EC135s!
    They have assisted in the location of missing and/or trapped persons on mountain rescue incidents.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  23. #21
    CQMS jack nastyface's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    225
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    Your enthusiasm to bad mouth the AIR CORPS Would seen to me that you have a personal gripe with them. ?
    Calm down sofa, no need to shout. I dont have a gripe with the Air Corps.I do however have freinds who serve in the Air Corps, and who I dont want to see being put at risk,because of an inability to learn lessons from past experience.

  24. #22
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    The Big Smoke
    Posts
    5,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    So basically you are saying that all the helicopters be grounded and that the Air Corps essentially be turned into Ground Corps. Also that mountain rescue do not get training experience with the Air Corps who are basically the guys they use to air lift people of the mountain, thereby increasing the chances of something going wrong when the Air Corps are used in real life. Or is your solution that mountain rescue use red bull to air lift people off the mountain (Red Bull gives you wiiings)

  25. #23
    Private 2* DirkinDaHerc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi All,

    I would welcome the training of any rescue organisation in the use of rotor aircraft, its for the benefit of all, it enhances the safety for those ppl working on the ground, the crew of the aircraft in question, and the casualty(s) been transported. If your job brings you in contact with a piece of equipment that you can call upon then you should have basic knowledge of how it works and the Dos and donts....

    This is why these training days take place not just here for Air corps & ICG, it happens all over the world... ppl are talking as if this is a new thing.

    DITH

  26. #24
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    907
    Post Thanks / Like
    I could be wrong but I think the point being made is that until the Air Corps can show equivalence in safety to civil operators perhaps the Air Corps shouldn't be carrying civil personnel. That in no way restricts the Air Corps from any of its military taskings for the Army and Navy.
    So I suppose the twos ways to look at this are:

    1. The Air Corps can operate as safely as any civil operator, in which case there is no issue
    2. The Air Corps have an increased risk profile and therefore should they be carrying non military personnel

    As for getting people up and down the hills there is a CG helicopter there and within 12-18 months that CG helicopter will have a greater lift capability then a couple of runs in a 139 so it will be a mute point.

    I do agree whole heatedly that the MRTs need training with and exposure to the aircraft and operators they are likely to encounter, the question is, who should they be operating with.

    Interestingly in this particular case I doubt if the NW MRTs will wait 1hr 30 plus a further 45 mins transit time when there is a CG base up the road. Therefore this conversation is really only relevant in the Dublin area during standard Air Corps ops hours, outside that the CG will be available at much shorter notice.

  27. #25
    Commandant Jetjock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,753
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jack nastyface View Post
    Why? Does P.ie have thing about the potential for people getting killed, and risk management?
    Training rescue teams in safe use of helicopters does not constitute effective risk management in your book? Please.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •