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  1. #76
    Commandant Jetjock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadpole View Post
    Jetjock, you just made my point. 90% of this cost could be got rid of by moving the AC to a civil facility or by selling / leasing Baldonnel to a third party operator and let them absorb the costs. The AC don't need a dedicated airfield, ATC, fire services etc with all the operational cost and maintenance they entail. Once you look down that path then next is farming out basic training and all aircraft maintenance. Lots of savings to be made in Baldonnel without any degradation of service if not an actual improvement.
    I also see the huge benefits moving to SNN/DUB would provide but I think the time for such a move has passed. The financial benefits of selling Baldonnel 6/7 years ago would have far outweighed it's limited strategic value. Not anymore though.

  2. #77
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    @mrtezza, for as long as I can remember, the Don have made aircraft available for MRT, well back into Alouette days. I know an MRT guy well, so I'll ask him soon.

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    GttC

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  4. #78
    Brigadier General
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    Video of heli drills.


  5. #79
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    A lot of the Don's involvement in MRT assistance came from having the primary artillery range in rough country. It became obvious that some casualties of civil and military accidents needed air transfer to hospital, rather than depend on road transport. One of my Apprentice Class was airlifted off a training exercise in the Glen by an Alouette III. We thought he'd be roaded out to Naas but it turned out to be easier to pick him off the hillside and drop him at the door, so to speak. We thought he'd get a shoeing from the Boss but Heli Flight were delighted to do the job. So, the Don may as well stay in practise at MRT, because after that, there's only GoHs (smelly oul fellas, live) and body searches (smelly oul fellas, dead).

    regards
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  6. #80
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    "A mountain rescue team in training with the Air Corps recently."


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  8. #81
    C/S Tempest's Avatar
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    If that is the SOP for dogs it needs to be changed immediately! Dog handlers should know better. Carabiner needs to go onto the harness, not the collar! Bit of turbulence and you choke the dog.

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  10. #82
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    I also see the huge benefits moving to SNN/DUB would provide but I think the time for such a move has passed. The financial benefits of selling Baldonnel 6/7 years ago would have far outweighed it's limited strategic value. Not anymore though.
    JJ, Nobody said the benefits were purely form moving Baldonell. The primary benefits are from CLOSING Baldonel and moving it to a corner of any given commercially viable civil airfield in Ireland. No requirement for ATC, Fire Crew, Airfield Mx etc..... The list goes on. I see an IAC with a very capable fleet and F**K all back room staff. Is that really an issue?????

  11. #83
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    There is a limited range of options to chose from. There was talk of the IAA cutting the 24 hour status of Cork last year.

    Also civilians can strike, the AC provides local fire cover in Baldonnel, they man the military ATC positions in Dublin, etc

    Would the IAA be willing to give MOAs close to, eg Shannon, where they could effect civilian traffic?
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/si/0806.html

  12. #84
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    There is a limited range of options to chose from. There was talk of the IAA cutting the 24 hour status of Cork last year.

    Also civilians can strike, the AC provides local fire cover in Baldonnel, they man the military ATC positions in Dublin, etc

    Would the IAA be willing to give MOAs close to, eg Shannon, where they could effect civilian traffic?
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/si/0806.html
    Even if the civilians strike, and the AC provided atc and and Fire, the FAA/CAA/IAA would not let a single passenger disembark.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  13. #85
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    We are getting into interesting territory here with shared services on an airfield, the consolidation of Brit era Army Barracks location has generally worked. However what about the reports in one of today's papers ( I heard a review on the wireless, think it was Business Post ) about the Army ( I assume AC) standing by to replace fire crews in Dublin in the event of a nationwide Airport Fire Service strike, Shannon and Cork to close but Dublin to stay open on limited DF support.

    This is where I diverge from TP's view on such shared services. Are we to leave the air element of the military prone to be shut down by an ATC or fire strike from civvies( or insist on costly no strike contracts). Would we outsource other vital military support services to strike prone civvies. Whilst we are at the sabre rattling stage of industrial relations in the airports , could that effect other vital services that operate out of these strategic airports , air ambo , SAR etc or can they operate without crash rescue. I for one prefer incompetent public servants that can't go on strike running these kind of services especially if they can adversely affect military capabilities.

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  15. #86
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Even if the civilians strike, and the AC provided atc and and Fire, the FAA/CAA/IAA would not let a single passenger disembark.
    Correct but AC ops could still continue

    If AC was to move to say Shannon, they would have to rely on civvy ATC & CRS that could go on strike.

  16. #87
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Correct but AC ops could still continue

    If AC was to move to say Shannon, they would have to rely on civvy ATC & CRS that could go on strike.
    What AC ops?
    Very little in the way of routine ops can take place in the absence of civil ATC. We have been over this before if I recall correctly.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  17. #88
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    What AC ops?
    Very little in the way of routine ops can take place in the absence of civil ATC. We have been over this before if I recall correctly.
    Genuine question here, why? If there's no ATC wont there be nothing flying over ireland so the AC would just have to do its own ATC to stop it's own fleet of less than 20 aircraft from flying into each other?
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  18. #89
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Will your ground based navaids be operating? How can you be sure if those who maintain are not working? (radio beacons etc).


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  19. #90
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Will your ground based navaids be operating? How can you be sure if those who maintain are not working? (radio beacons etc).
    I thought that being "miliary" aircraft that they would have their own gps nav systems so they wouldn't be dependent on third party navaids
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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  21. #91
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Obviously it depends on if any ATC ops were still working.

    But in short term, air ambulance, ATCP, ATCA, MATS, Martime surveillance, SAR top cover etc

    If prolonged, training

  22. #92
    Commandant Jetjock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Obviously it depends on if any ATC ops were still working.

    But in short term, air ambulance, ATCP, ATCA, MATS, Martime surveillance, SAR top cover etc

    If prolonged, training
    It is common practice internationally even in the event of an all out ATC strike, to maintain a minimum level of service for priority flights such as SAR or Air Ambulance or indeed aircraft in distress.

    Continued operations for the AC would not be an issue.

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  24. #93
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