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Thread: New Generals?

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    So a modification of the ECF?
    New CS4?
    How many appointments for each service will be in this “Joint Task Force”?
    It's a temp appointment as far as I'm aware. Once the JTF is stood down, so will the appointment. I am open to correction however.

    No new CS4.

    If prior form is any sort of indicator, the army will get a few mannequins in and put Navy and Blue uniforms on them. That'll tick the "joint" box.

    There are a lot of silos and agendas to break down before there is any semblance of a "joint" command within the DF at any level.

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  3. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    It's a temp appointment as far as I'm aware. Once the JTF is stood down, so will the appointment. I am open to correction however.

    No new CS4....
    Chances are someone higher in the chain is close to retirement, so the net effect of promoting replacements will probably result in this being a permanent appointment
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  4. #503
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    What a really stupid time to change command and control. Talk about sowing confusion in a crisis

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  6. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    What a really stupid time to change command and control. Talk about sowing confusion in a crisis
    Reminds of a quote that is often mistakenly attributed to Petronius.

    We trained hard ... but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petronius
    Last edited by CTU; 24th March 2020 at 18:53.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed!
    I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  8. #505
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    So a modification of the ECF?
    New CS4?
    How many appointments for each service will be in this “Joint Task Force”?
    I was wondering that myself.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  9. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Chances are someone higher in the chain is close to retirement, so the net effect of promoting replacements will probably result in this being a permanent appointment
    Not sure who is next to retire and couldnt care less personally. However, in the absence of a formal promotion competition I would find it difficult to see him just 'slot in' to a Brig Gen Vacancy without a huge amount of objection from others.

    I don't know the ins and outs as it is unprecedented to my knowledge but is akin to someone acting up except in this case, they are acting up into a vacancy that doesnt exist on CS4. All a bit strange.

    By all accounts he is and excellent officer and very highly regarded so I'm glad that it's him heading it up.

    There is a precedent of promoting an officer to general rank into a UN appointment but its usually a sunset trip and given on the basis that they retire when the appointment is due to be rotated.

    Again to my knowledge, there has been no other promotions and personnel have been pulled in from all three services to man the service.
    Last edited by Chuck; 24th March 2020 at 19:05.

  10. #507
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    A new comprehensive study shows just how devastating it can be. The study, which involves researchers from the University of East Anglia’s Norwich Business School in England, and the Netherlands Organisation for Applied Scientific Research, shows that restructuring in organisations has a largely negative effect on the welfare of employees, regardless of whether there are job losses.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...9%3Fmode%3Damp

  11. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    A new comprehensive study shows just how devastating it can be. The study, which involves researchers from the University of East Anglia’s Norwich Business School in England, and the Netherlands Organisation for Applied Scientific Research, shows that restructuring in organisations has a largely negative effect on the welfare of employees, regardless of whether there are job losses.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...9%3Fmode%3Damp
    You do understand that this JTF is a temporary measure to deal with COVID-19. That's not to say that it won't be implemented pernamently in the future but at present it will cease to exist when it is no longer required.

    The reality is that for all personnel who are not directly involved within the JTF, they will see zero difference. Taskings will be received, appraised and then sent out to the unit best placed to respond.

    They are essentially acting in the capacity as BDE/DFHQ Ops except their sole function is to respond to the crisis that is ongoing.

    I'm not sure why you are trying to create some hysteria around this.

    If you are a serving PDF member, how has this negatively affected you? Or how do you anticipate that it will or is this just a case of "I don't like change".
    Last edited by Chuck; 24th March 2020 at 20:36.

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  13. #509
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    To be honest, the more I dwell on it, the more laughable your assertion is.

    With all due respect, are you genuinely suggesting that the temporary creation of a JTF to respond to a crisis the state has not seen before is leaving some personnel feeling "insecure"?

    In the same organization where people can be inneffective for years, fail CRDT (just twoexamples of below par performance) and can still remain a member and be in receipt of full pay and allowances.

    This change is making people 'in secure'? Really?

    I get that change for the sake of chang rarely creates more effective working environment but what we are seeing is not change for the sake of change.

  14. #510
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    Meh
    Last edited by TangoSierra; 24th March 2020 at 21:17. Reason: Not worth it

  15. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    The new changes have essentially severed years of informal peer to peer communication channels that helped deliver agile results and has replaced it with unnecessary bureaucracy.

    I’m in favor of meaningful change to “jointness” but this is not it.

    Step outside McKee and you’ll see the reality of confusion being sown. The level
    Of micromanagement being shown is jaw dropping. Generals/Cols being needed to sign off on €150 expenditure level craziness.
    The DF has always been a hive of bureaucracy, that concept is nothing new.

    Micromanagement is nothing new either. Both are unhelpful but I still disagree with your sentiment.

    There has been a flurry of information disseminated over the past 7-10 days between training, admin, ops etc all related to COVID-19 and the repercussions. That's unavoidable. Every "frontline" service is the same, DFB, the Gardai, Prison Service. Day to day contradictions. Unhelpful - yes, avoidable - No. It's very difficult as the situation is changing daily.

    For the average soldier, all the information is available via Ikon and if they don't have Ikon it should be disseminated by the CoC. If this information isn't deliverabled in a timely manner to those at the coalface, that's a failure at a local level.

    Only after the fact can we know if the JTF served a purpose or if it was all a folly. It seems like you are having a bit of a knee jerk reaction to the concept before it even begins.

    For the record, I am still on the fence about it but I'll reserve judgment until things have returned to some semblance of normality.

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  17. #512
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    When the current unpleasantness passes, and the need for the JTF does too, will this bring gen be busted back down to Col?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  18. #513
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    No the “average” soldier does not have access to ikon. Neither do a lot of NCOs who actually need it. Hence the reality is that most are using WhatsApp and Gmail/Google docs on their own personal devices. The reason being that they were never provided with the resources to do their jobs and the DF can’t facilitate working remotely in any meaningful capacity. Can’t wait for the inevitable data breech.

    The belief in McKee is that because they’re resourced (even to the point of taking Personnel from other formations) everything is fine. Fingers are being stuck in ears when it comes to the demands of operational units for resources. Resources that would have normally been made available through peer to peer channels are now all being “routed” through “JTF”. It’s a convenient excuse to avoid dealing with real problems.
    Last edited by TangoSierra; 25th March 2020 at 07:54.

  19. #514
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    No the “average” soldier does not have access to ikon. Neither do a lot of NCOs who actually need it
    This is very true and is a comment from observing the PDF. Its not an RDF comment.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  20. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    No the “average” soldier does not have access to ikon. Neither do a lot of NCOs who actually need it. Hence the reality is that most are using WhatsApp and Gmail/Google docs on their own personal devices. The reason being that they were never provided with the resources to do their jobs and the DF can’t facilitate working remotely in any meaningful capacity. Can’t wait for the inevitable data breech.

    The belief in McKee is that because they’re resourced (even to the point of taking Personnel from other formations) everything is fine. Fingers are being stuck in ears when it comes to the demands of operational units for resources. Resources that would have normally been made available through peer to peer channels are now all being “routed” through “JTF”. It’s a convenient excuse to avoid dealing with real problems.
    The average soldier has an orderly room, which should have a unit notice board. All of the correspondence that has been disseminated lately comes with the direction to ensure all person are informed and the information should be shared accordingly.

    There is a personal responsibility here for people also, if confusion exists, clarity should be sought. It's not good enough to sit back and expect to be spoon fed everything.

    If the information isn't reaching the troops perhaps you should address that within your own CoC as opposed to trying to draw some type of strawman correlation with the JTF.
    Last edited by Chuck; 25th March 2020 at 11:35.

  21. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    The average soldier has an orderly room, which should have a unit notice board. All of the correspondence that has been disseminated lately comes with the direction to ensure all person are informed and the information should be shared accordingly.

    There is a personal responsibility here for people also, if confusion exists, clarity should be sought. It's not good enough to sit back and expect to be spoon fed everything.

    If the information isn't reaching the troops perhaps you should address that within your own CoC as opposed to trying to draw some type of strawman correlation with the JTF.
    Also fair comment
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  22. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    The average soldier has an orderly room, which should have a unit notice board. All of the correspondence that has been disseminated lately comes with the direction to ensure all person are informed and the information should be shared accordingly.

    There is a personal responsibility here for people also, if confusion exists, clarity should be sought. It's not good enough to sit back and expect to be spoon fed everything.

    If the information isn't reaching the troops perhaps you should address that within your own CoC as opposed to trying to draw some type of strawman correlation with the JTF.
    It is actually a legal requirement to acquaint yourself with regulations etc can’t remember where it is but it exists

  23. #518
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    Maybe that’s why (along with Fake news) the GRO and daily status updates are up in the members area of military.ie that anyone and his wife can look at

  24. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    It is actually a legal requirement to acquaint yourself with regulations etc can’t remember where it is but it exists
    Ignorance of regulations is not an excuse for non compliance or lack of understanding.

    It probably is written is some ancient document alright.

  25. #520
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    I know the three of you are higher than three-stars.

    A7 Para 3 ( my copy, may be old).

    Officers will make themselves acquainted with Regulations and Orders. Ignorance of published Orders will not be admitted as an excuse for their non-observance. Men will be held personally responsible for making themselves acquainted with Orders published for their information.
    PS - Knock off the bickering
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  27. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    It is actually a legal requirement to acquaint yourself with regulations etc can’t remember where it is but it exists
    Ahhh Jaysus Dev. Did ya learn nowt on your driving course? 'Tis stated in Driver Standing Orders anyways...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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