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  • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
    The new changes have essentially severed years of informal peer to peer communication channels that helped deliver agile results and has replaced it with unnecessary bureaucracy.

    I’m in favor of meaningful change to “jointness” but this is not it.

    Step outside McKee and you’ll see the reality of confusion being sown. The level
    Of micromanagement being shown is jaw dropping. Generals/Cols being needed to sign off on €150 expenditure level craziness.
    The DF has always been a hive of bureaucracy, that concept is nothing new.

    Micromanagement is nothing new either. Both are unhelpful but I still disagree with your sentiment.

    There has been a flurry of information disseminated over the past 7-10 days between training, admin, ops etc all related to COVID-19 and the repercussions. That's unavoidable. Every "frontline" service is the same, DFB, the Gardai, Prison Service. Day to day contradictions. Unhelpful - yes, avoidable - No. It's very difficult as the situation is changing daily.

    For the average soldier, all the information is available via Ikon and if they don't have Ikon it should be disseminated by the CoC. If this information isn't deliverabled in a timely manner to those at the coalface, that's a failure at a local level.

    Only after the fact can we know if the JTF served a purpose or if it was all a folly. It seems like you are having a bit of a knee jerk reaction to the concept before it even begins.

    For the record, I am still on the fence about it but I'll reserve judgment until things have returned to some semblance of normality.

    Comment


    • When the current unpleasantness passes, and the need for the JTF does too, will this bring gen be busted back down to Col?
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

      Comment


      • No the “average” soldier does not have access to ikon. Neither do a lot of NCOs who actually need it. Hence the reality is that most are using WhatsApp and Gmail/Google docs on their own personal devices. The reason being that they were never provided with the resources to do their jobs and the DF can’t facilitate working remotely in any meaningful capacity. Can’t wait for the inevitable data breech.

        The belief in McKee is that because they’re resourced (even to the point of taking Personnel from other formations) everything is fine. Fingers are being stuck in ears when it comes to the demands of operational units for resources. Resources that would have normally been made available through peer to peer channels are now all being “routed” through “JTF”. It’s a convenient excuse to avoid dealing with real problems.
        Last edited by TangoSierra; 25 March 2020, 08:54.

        Comment


        • No the “average” soldier does not have access to ikon. Neither do a lot of NCOs who actually need it
          This is very true and is a comment from observing the PDF. Its not an RDF comment.
          "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

          "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
            No the “average” soldier does not have access to ikon. Neither do a lot of NCOs who actually need it. Hence the reality is that most are using WhatsApp and Gmail/Google docs on their own personal devices. The reason being that they were never provided with the resources to do their jobs and the DF can’t facilitate working remotely in any meaningful capacity. Can’t wait for the inevitable data breech.

            The belief in McKee is that because they’re resourced (even to the point of taking Personnel from other formations) everything is fine. Fingers are being stuck in ears when it comes to the demands of operational units for resources. Resources that would have normally been made available through peer to peer channels are now all being “routed” through “JTF”. It’s a convenient excuse to avoid dealing with real problems.
            The average soldier has an orderly room, which should have a unit notice board. All of the correspondence that has been disseminated lately comes with the direction to ensure all person are informed and the information should be shared accordingly.

            There is a personal responsibility here for people also, if confusion exists, clarity should be sought. It's not good enough to sit back and expect to be spoon fed everything.

            If the information isn't reaching the troops perhaps you should address that within your own CoC as opposed to trying to draw some type of strawman correlation with the JTF.
            Last edited by Chuck; 25 March 2020, 12:35.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Chuck View Post
              The average soldier has an orderly room, which should have a unit notice board. All of the correspondence that has been disseminated lately comes with the direction to ensure all person are informed and the information should be shared accordingly.

              There is a personal responsibility here for people also, if confusion exists, clarity should be sought. It's not good enough to sit back and expect to be spoon fed everything.

              If the information isn't reaching the troops perhaps you should address that within your own CoC as opposed to trying to draw some type of strawman correlation with the JTF.
              Also fair comment
              "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Chuck View Post
                The average soldier has an orderly room, which should have a unit notice board. All of the correspondence that has been disseminated lately comes with the direction to ensure all person are informed and the information should be shared accordingly.

                There is a personal responsibility here for people also, if confusion exists, clarity should be sought. It's not good enough to sit back and expect to be spoon fed everything.

                If the information isn't reaching the troops perhaps you should address that within your own CoC as opposed to trying to draw some type of strawman correlation with the JTF.
                It is actually a legal requirement to acquaint yourself with regulations etc can’t remember where it is but it exists

                Comment


                • Maybe that’s why (along with Fake news) the GRO and daily status updates are up in the members area of military.ie that anyone and his wife can look at

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    It is actually a legal requirement to acquaint yourself with regulations etc can’t remember where it is but it exists
                    Ignorance of regulations is not an excuse for non compliance or lack of understanding.

                    It probably is written is some ancient document alright.

                    Comment


                    • I know the three of you are higher than three-stars.

                      A7 Para 3 ( my copy, may be old).

                      Officers will make themselves acquainted with Regulations and Orders. Ignorance of published Orders will not be admitted as an excuse for their non-observance. Men will be held personally responsible for making themselves acquainted with Orders published for their information.
                      PS - Knock off the bickering
                      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        It is actually a legal requirement to acquaint yourself with regulations etc can’t remember where it is but it exists
                        Ahhh Jaysus Dev. Did ya learn nowt on your driving course? 'Tis stated in Driver Standing Orders anyways...
                        "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                        Comment


                        • Reportedly the COS is going to have his term of office extended

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            Reportedly the COS is going to have his term of office extended
                            https://twitter.com/mcconnelldaniel/...754736128?s=21
                            What is the Retirement age for OF-8? Mark is 62 in November. I know there were plans to extend the Mandatory retirement age for officers some years back but unsure where it went.
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              What is the Retirement age for OF-8? Mark is 62 in November. I know there were plans to extend the Mandatory retirement age for officers some years back but unsure where it went.
                              62 after PWC review I think

                              Comment


                              • Twitter reporting BG Cleary taking over 1 Bde https://twitter.com/2farassociation/...88826818355213
                                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                                Comment

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