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Thread: New Generals?

  1. #426
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    I agree that being Force Commander does denote distinguished service. However as APOD said this medal is also awarded for bravery and the DSM that is issued to Generals is the highest in that order. In my view it is the constant awarding to COS on retirement that has devalued it. This did not happen prior to 1992.

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  3. #427
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    The medal is for distinguished service, it is not a medal for bravery or heroics or gallantry. We have another medal for that.

    This is a medal that denotes distinguished service. Leading the UN's largest peacekeeping force, being the only FC that is also HOM is as good as it gets. His most recent post had him command more troops than the Irish DF and unlike the COS he was actually in command.

    What do you think he could have done differently?
    DSM can be awarded for “bravery, courage, leadership, resource or devotion to duty...”

  4. #428
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    The medal is for distinguished service, it is not a medal for bravery or heroics or gallantry. We have another medal for that.

    This is a medal that denotes distinguished service. Leading the UN's largest peacekeeping force, being the only FC that is also HOM is as good as it gets. His most recent post had him command more troops than the Irish DF and unlike the COS he was actually in command.

    What do you think he could have done differently?
    Again the medal in its formats has been awarded for different reasons to different people with absolutely no consistency. I would invite you to read the citations that have accompanied the award since 1960... everything for making tea...to turning up for work. Awarding a medal on retirement to a senior officer is a kick in the teeth to those who in their own rank did the job over and above what was required every day of the week for their entire service....

    Persons carried out acts of personal sacrifice and bravery and weren't awarded any medals.... but because he's the top of the food chain he gets a medal.

    Its nothing against the man, I'm sure he is a fine soldier... but he came to work, got promoted paid and pensioned.... and someone within the system decided it would be 'nice' if he got a medal.

    it took six years and a breach of the statute for the crew of D248 to get the same medal..... for their unwitting part in a huge fcuk up!...and we put a retiring general on the same playing field...I don't think so!

    Again its not about the man. The award system needs to be revisited and specific awards for this type of service made... The Good Conduct or 'Twenty one years of undetected crime' medal, same thing handed out like water!


    We need to look at things like meritous unit citations where whole units have been worthy of awards but only certain parties get awards, the CoS himself brought this matter to a head with the 'Brime' arrest and it was a case of nominate a couple of guys or no one gets anything!!!!!

    A retired officer recently got a DSM after his career died....( happens when someone gets murdered on your ship and you make a bollocks of yourself in tthe courtroom) and he had retired....for an an incident that no one remembers... If they couldn't give it to him while serving why did he deserve it all.


    They couldn't award medals for the Cliona incident because the people who jumped ship were never prosecuted and came up witha scroll instead.... saving a ship and suffering burns in the incident seems to be a little more gallant than leading from behind a desk.....


    I could name specific incidents where people should have got medals but didn't because it was deemed in appropriate to highlight deficiences in the system that allowed incidents to take lace that led to people taking risks and carrying out actions that were above and beyond....as can many persons who served.

    So my opinion remains as it has been......
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 5th September 2018 at 20:57.
    Time for another break I think......

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  6. #429
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    I think part of the problem is the reluctance to award the MMG, instead awarding the DSM for actions where a higher award would be justified.
    At its core, it is in the medal title. "distinguished service", as opposed to "gallantry".
    Gen Beary's service, compared to others can definitely be considered distinguished. He was FC at a time of huge transition in UNIFIL. Indeed he faced the wrath of the Israeli backed Trump Government head on, who accused UNIFIL , and Gen Beary of ignoring the inflow of illegal weapons to Hezballah in South Lebanon. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ms-trafficking
    However I do think his service is not as distinguished (with Honour) as that of Mick Baker or Paddy Mooney who earned theirs being killed because the Air Corps cut corners. Or that of Sgt Gerard Lanigan, who according to his citation gave medical aid to a Fijian soldier while under fire in Lebanon. Or the Air Corps crew who carried out the rescue at Mukish Mountain by night in aircraft only suitable for daytime operations.
    There is no consistency. Some generals have got the Medal with Honour, others with merit.
    I do not begrudge these men their awards, but there should be a clear class for Generals who turned up for work every day and a different class for soldiers who risked or gave their life during the course of their duties to help and protect others.
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  8. #430
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    All the generals that received the DSM for their service, received the DSM with honour.

    Look at the list

    http://www.military.ie/info-centre/d...-of-the-medal/

  9. #431
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    The current FOCNS has never commanded a ship. He is the first officer in this appointment who followed that particular career path.
    Here is a discussion from the UK of the suggestion that the future First Sea Lord may not have come from a non-warfare career path.

    https://wavellroom.com/2018/11/06/ho...irst-sea-lord/

    The Chief Executive and Chairman of British Airways is Spanish businessman called Álex Cruz de Llano. Although he has a degree in Industrial Engineering he has spent his entire career managing the businesses of major Airlines. There is no suggestion in any online biography (that the author could find) that he is a pilot of any description, even as a hobby, let alone an airline captain. Having checked the biographies of the Chairmen of each of the 20 Premier League football clubs, the author could similarly find no evidence (albeit a cursory search of the Wikipedia profiles doesn’t necessarily preclude it completely) that any of them have played professional football at all, much less in the Premier League itself. Whilst this is a small sample, there appears to be a strong trend that large, high performing organisations are not led by people who are necessarily practitioners in the business at which their organisation excels.
    There are plenty of similar examples and, indeed, apparently few sectors of the economy where the opposite is true. The deduction from this would seem to be that the skills required for strategic leadership of such organisations are different to those required to manage that actual operational activity of the organisation. The Armed Forces appear to be an exception and this short article will examine why that is so and if, in the modern context, this should remain the case with the associated costs and opportunities.
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  10. #432
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    New GOC DFTC has been selected

  11. #433
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Are you going to keep us in suspense?

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  13. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    New GOC DFTC has been selected
    So Brig Gen Mulligan is retiring then. Met him once - seems like a decent guy. And I get the same vibe from posts I've seen on social media from folk who served under him down the years.
    Am making an educated guess and saying his successor is not currently serving in DFTC...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  14. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    New GOC DFTC has been selected
    old news...

  15. #436
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    New DCOS Sp is Maj Gen Sean Clancy (former GOC AC)

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  17. #437
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    Not that long GoCAC unless I'm mistaken. Good to see it though. Keep the honkeys guessing.
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  18. #438
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Assuming planned dates, whens DCOS OPS and COS up next ?
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    New DCOS Sp is Maj Gen Sean Clancy (former GOC AC)
    Of the 4 candidates, there was only 1 real candidate. Same goes for the next gig in August - DCOS Ops.

    The next COS will be in blue

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  21. #440
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    Of the 4 candidates, there was only 1 real candidate. Same goes for the next gig in August - DCOS Ops.

    The next COS will be in blue
    Is it becoming a rotational role ?
    Time for another break I think......

  22. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Is it becoming a rotational role ?
    No. All of the generals are retiring at pretty much the same time. New GOCs 1 Bde, 2 Bde, DFTC and now AC, 2 X DCOS, ACOS and new COS all within 18 months so it is pretty easy to work out who will be the DCOS' and thus the COS. There is only 1 clear cndidate and he is leagues ahead

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  24. #442
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Can’t you (technical) skip Maj Gen and go from Brig Gen to Lt Gen?

  25. #443
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Didnt DE skip IIRC ?
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  26. #444
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    You can but none of them will.

    There is a matter under consideration at the moment to reduce the minimum service at the rank of Col to zero days. That would mean you could go from Lt Col to Maj Gen in a day. Massive strategic jump and they would surely suffer like the last person to jump a rank did, quickly found he was out of his depth, retires on age grounds in a few weeks
    Last edited by Fantasia; 21st March 2019 at 16:34.

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  28. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Didnt DE skip IIRC ?
    No, he was a Brig Gen for a very short period of time. Cannot remember in what capacity he was a Brig Gen, possibly ACOS as people would remember of he was a GOC, even for a short while

  29. #446
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    As far as I remember from looking at the paperwork. He was gazetted as DCOS as a Brig Gen then promoted to Maj Gen after the appropriate minimum time.

  30. #447
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    Sean Clancy is a nice guy and he looks well in uniform and I haven't heard a bad word (the opposite in fact) said about him.
    However, 1 overseas trip...

    if a Cpl was vying for a Sgts spot the question would be asked have you being overseas as a Cpl ,

    and a Sgt going for CS- the question etc etc,

    There are plenty of qualified nice guy officers who have multiple overseas trips
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  32. #448
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    New GOC AC is a former apprentice

    Congrats Sir

    https://mobile.twitter.com/DF_COS/st...168781313?s=09

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  34. #449
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    Col Anthony McKenna is the new DCOS (Ops)

    https://mobile.twitter.com/campaign4...746295296?s=19

  35. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Col Anthony McKenna is the new DCOS (Ops)

    https://mobile.twitter.com/campaign4...746295296?s=19
    I suppose the last reorg reduced the pool of eligible Brig Generals interested in going for this role. Anyone know where Col McKenna came from?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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