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  1. #1
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    London 2012: Missiles may be placed at residential flats

    (I know there have been a few Olympic threads, but as they ended in teddy bears being thrown I thought I'd put this in a new thread, rather than restarting dead arguments)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17884897
    London 2012: Missiles may be placed at residential flats
    The Ministry of Defence is considering placing surface-to-air missiles on residential flats during the Olympics.

    An east London estate, where 700 people live, has received leaflets saying a "Higher Velocity Missile system" could be placed on a water tower.

    A spokesman said the MoD had not yet decided whether to deploy ground based air defence systems during the event.

    But estate resident Brian Whelan said firing the missiles "would shower debris across the east end of London".

    The journalist said: "At first I thought it was a hoax. I can't see what purpose high-velocity missiles could serve over a crowded area like Tower Hamlets.

    "They say they'll only use them as a last resort, but... you'd shower debris across the east end of London by firing these missiles."

    Mr Whelan, who claims to have seen soldiers carrying a crate into the building, said his property management company put up posters and gave out the leaflets on Saturday.

    He continued: "They are going to have a test run next week, putting high velocity missiles on the roof just above our apartment and on the back of it they're stationing police and military in the tower of the building for two months.

    "It [the leaflet] says there will be 10 officers plus police present 24/7."

    Resident Brian Whelan: "It creates a lot of fear. It's a massive inconvenience"

    Rushana Ali, MP for Bethnal Green and Bow, said: "It looks like it's been imposed without proper consultation.

    "I will be asking the government to explain why. The MoD does need to look at this again."

    The leaflet states that members of the Armed Forces will be at the location for a military exercise between 2 and 7 May.

    It goes on to say there will be a "major national exercise" from 2 to 10 May to test the Armed Forces' capabilities for providing security during the Olympics.

    The document added that if the government decides to use the missiles during the Games, the soldiers could be "operationally deployed for a period of up to two months this summer".

    The weapon being considered is a High Velocity Missile (HVM) system, which would be based on the Lexington Building Water Tower. The tower contains residential flats.

    The MoD says in the leaflet that the missiles will not pose a hazard to residents and "will only be authorised for active use following specific orders from the highest levels of government in response to a confirmed and extreme security threat".

    The document states: "Having a 24/7 Armed Forces and police presence will improve your local security and will not make you a target for terrorists.
    Extract from MoD leaflet This part of the leaflet assures residents that their residence will not become a terrorist target

    "The location has been chosen as it is situated close to the Olympic Park and offers an excellent view of the surrounding area and the entire sky above the Olympic Park.

    "The top of the tower also offers a flat, uncluttered and safe area from which to operate."

    The Army website says the HVM system is "designed to counter threats from very high performance, low-flying aircraft".

    It says the missile travels at more than three times the speed of sound, using "a system of three dart-like projectiles to allow multiple hits on the target".

    The missiles can be fired from the shoulder, from a lightweight multiple launcher or from armoured vehicles.

    A MoD spokesman said: "As announced before Christmas, ground based air defence systems could be deployed as part of a multi-layered air security plan for the Olympics, including fast jets and helicopters, which will protect the skies over London during the Games.

    "Based on military advice we have identified a number of sites and, alongside colleagues from the Metropolitan Police, are talking to local authorities and relevant landowners to help minimise the impact of any temporary deployments.

    "As part of our ongoing planning, we can confirm site evaluations have taken place."

    The MoD has previously said it was considering plans to install surface-to-air missiles in south-east London at Blackheath and Shooters Hill during the Olympics.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  2. #2
    Brigadier General
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    This was the first headline item on RTE radio this morning. slow news day perhaps.

  3. #3
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I'd be delighted if where I live had its own air defence system....


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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  5. #4
    CQMS
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    Instead of cribbing they should welcome the 24hrs armed security that they will have, I cant see to many burgalaries or bag snatching in that street.
    Sorry but im with the MOD here, put up whatever is needed , where its needed.

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  7. #5
    Major General
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    sounds like a Manpad ,must be on a sector not covered by a Daring.

  8. #6
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    sounds like a Manpad ,must be on a sector not covered by a Daring.
    every plan has a back-up.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  9. #7
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    And, in a difficult sellers market you can in all honesty put it on the market as being "fully-equipped with all MOD cons".

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  11. #8
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    It'll be great for street crime. All the usual vermin will be deterred from bag-snatching, picking pockets and so on when they realise that the CCTV has been supplemented by rifle sights. I sincerely hope that some toerag tries it on and gets shot. Accidentally. Of course....
    regards
    GttC

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  13. #9
    Sergeant Major
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    Starstreak by the sound of things - taken from the description of three dart like projectiles.

  14. #10
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    every plan has a back-up.
    No harm in a bit of Layered Air Defence.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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  16. #11
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    I know damn all about these systems, but I'm presuming that the "backblast" won't be an issue, and I suppose any firing would be at a such a target which would mean that the "scattering of debris" all over London would be less of a risk than if the target was allowed to proceed unimpeded.

    I can't imagine they will have any test runs at drogues!
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  17. #12
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Higher Velocity Missile system" dont sound quite right.

    "They say they'll only use them as a last resort, but... you'd shower debris across the east end of London by firing these missiles."
    Has he any idea the debris that could be spread if a plane was flown intentionally used to target an area of dense population by terrorist?

    Get over it Mr. Whealen, Londoners in the past survived the associated shrapnel from British AA fire in WW2.

    Rushana Ali, MP for Bethnal Green and Bow, said: "It looks like it's been imposed without proper consultation.
    Ha well . . . we all know Muslim Fundamentalist Terror Groups give lots of warning with regards impending attacks so as to limit civilian casualties.

    Connaught Stranger
    Last edited by Connaught Stranger; 30th April 2012 at 13:10.

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  19. #13
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    i wasn't too impressed with those the media decided to represent the criticism of this deployment of British Army soldiers and equipment - an Irishman and a Muslim.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  20. #14
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Worth noting that Mr Whelan is irish.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  21. #15
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Worth noting that Mr Whelan is irish.
    and Muslim?

    God knows - but the media have been twats about this.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  22. #16
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    Whats the problem, it's only a deterrent, people should be grateful for the extra security. Did'ent we do it here for one of the visits to the Dail, some years ago?
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
    Illegitimi non carborundum

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  24. #17
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey View Post
    Whats the problem, it's only a deterrent, people should be grateful for the extra security. Did'ent we do it here for one of the visits to the Dail, some years ago?
    i totally agree - i'm sure if the worst did happen and there were no air defences to prevent it then the same people would probably be kicking off saying the MOD could have easily placed such weapons on many sites in London and that the Government wasn't protecting them from such attacks.

    you just can't please some people - it's just a pity the media chose the stereotypical people who might not look on this deployment of British Soldiers and equipment too favourably to pass comment.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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  26. #18
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    I dont see why the love-in tree hugging hippy brigade dont just all f**k off and move to a different country anyway. Hate this kind of NON NEWS sh*te.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  28. #19
    Lower than a snakes balls Duffman's Avatar
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    What the hell are people whinging about. Get the priorities right, I would most certainly prefer to have a "scattering of debris" as opposed to an aircraft plowing into a populated area.

    "Resident outraged when army sniper takes out suicide bomber and splatters blood over all over his dandelions"
    "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

    "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

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  30. #20
    Colonel pmtts's Avatar
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    I know that tower very well. It's on the site of the former Bryant & May matchstick factory. They were turned into luxury apartments over 20 odd years ago.

  31. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    It'll be great for street crime. All the usual vermin will be deterred from bag-snatching, picking pockets and so on when they realise that
    they are on duty for the Olympics and are stuck doing stag on top of a water tower

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  33. #22
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    that was a duuuurty wun

  34. #23
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    "First hand account" (whinge) in the Indo

    Flats to be used as missile launch site for Games
    By Neil Midgley in London

    Monday April 30 2012

    When I checked my post on Friday, I found three items: a credit-card mailshot, a stationery catalogue -- and a leaflet from the UK defence ministry.

    In two sides of A4, the MoD told me that the development where I live, the Bow Quarter in east London, is likely to be used as a launch site for a high-velocity-missile (HVM) ground-based air-defence system.

    The people who normally dwell in our 700-odd flats are Canary Wharf bankers, creative types and young families. We seldom see anyone in uniform other than our own security guards (who, yesterday, had the unusual task of fighting off TV crews as the story went global).

    Threats

    Our tallest landmark -- the largely unused Lexington Building Water Tower -- has been chosen by the army as the most likely potential launch site for a HVM system which will, in extremis, be deployed to shoot down airborne threats to the Olympic Games.

    Apparently the Lexington tower is the only building both tall enough, and near enough, to the Games, to give unimpeded views of the entire Olympic Park. So from Friday, we will play host to an exercise which will test the command and control network, and whether the HVM system is capable of detecting the kinds of threats it is designed to combat.

    The HVM system best detects "aircraft that are coming head-on", Lt Col Brian Fahy, an army military liaison officer, said. "It will be the last opportunity to stop anything getting to the Olympic Park itself."

    Lt Col Fahy also confirmed -- in a move that will anger some residents -- our estate management company has given permission for the test. If successful, the army team and equipment may be deployed -- with live ammunition -- for up to two months. This latest development brings the sharp reality of London holding the Olympics much closer to home. (© Daily Telegraph, London)

    - Neil Midgley in London
    http://www.independent.ie/world-news...s-3095356.html
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  35. #24
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    I have never heard of any western armed forces putting a high veloicity missile system on a highly residential block of flats.Stupitidy by puttiing the 700 odd so residents at risk or a smart tactical decision?????

  36. #25
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    Surely if an aircraft gets in that far to the centre of London , the air defence screen has already failed.?

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