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  1. #1
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    Army re-org from 3 Brigades to 2

    Hi All

    I did do a search but couldnt find any further info on this topic (which is probably my fault as I might not have searched properly)

    So apologies if this is a repeat of an existing thread.

    Anyway my question is: Any further news on the propsed re-org of the army structure from 3 Brigades down to 2? Last I heard was that the DOD in conjunction with senior military personnel were due to come back to the Minister with proposals as to how this would be accomplished.

    Have they reported back?

    If not when are they due to report back?

    And finally please feel free to speculate as to what future shape the Army may take in view of the re-org.

    Many thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    There is a Parlimentary question being put to the minister in the Dail this evening regarding this topic. I suggest you wait to hear his answer. You can watch the Ministers question time online, live.
    Answers are posted on this website, in the politics section a few days later.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  3. #3
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    Cheers Goldie - will do.

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    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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    On the local wireless today that Custume Barracks to lose 550 troops and be downgraded, hardly worth 4FARs while to unpack!

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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Left100 View Post
    On the local wireless today that Custume Barracks to lose 550 troops and be downgraded, hardly worth 4FARs while to unpack!
    Downgraded ?

    To what ? Oh, yes, I was about to say that it's a Bde HQ, but this is obviously the start of the transition from 3 Bdes to 2 Bdes
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  8. #7
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The Minister said a couple of days ago it was safe!

  9. #8
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    They were complaining in the Dail that it was too full. Now they are just making it more comfy for those there.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  10. #9
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    cart before the horse surely. Rumours ( undenied ) so far as far as I can see but as we know well it will be true when it is officially denied.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

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    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    It's political posturing.Testing the waters before any proper announcement is made.FFS the MA's are not due to report back to the Minister before the end of July anyway.No matter what happens though you are not going to have two BDE Hq's in the one Bde.If they go north/south split then Collins and Custume are safe.East/west then we have a problem.
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

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    What about reforming into a mechanised Brigade and a light Brigade

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  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo768 View Post
    What about reforming into a mechanised Brigade and a light Brigade
    I doubt a single TD or the minister would know that means!!

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    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    What about reforming into a mechanised Brigade and a light Brigade
    Tis a fair question and involves a massive amount of what-if'ing. Here's the deal ; the 2 Brig structure will prob come out this year, THEN the Green Paper, THEN the White Paper.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  16. #14
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    It is a logical choice though, given the actual equipment status. It would be public knowledge that there isn't enough APCs, LTAVs, MRVs and CRVs to equip the entire DF. Why not concentrate the heavy stuff in one brigade?
    Also, while the discussion is of changing the army from three brigades to two, in effect there are still four. The DFTC maintains much of the command structure of a Brigade, without the combat elements. However there are many units based in DFTC that are not under the Eastern Brigade.
    !st Armoured Cavalry and 1st Air Defence Rgt for example.


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  17. #15
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    There is alot of speculation at the moment as to what way its all going to go, the recommendation was to provide a split Northern Command / Southern Command along the middle counties with the exception of Galway being southern command. How that effects the core units im not sure, for example what happens to the CIS, MP, Logs coys, do they simply have a MP B-Coy.

    Im just putting what i heard in the pot; no more reliable than anyone else
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  18. #16
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    Conventional you would say 1 corps unit per brigade. If there is a task force for Dublin will be interesting!

  19. #17
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Heard a couple of good ones last week.All rumours so don't go off crying just yet.
    ALL cav/arty and engrs to be centrallised in the DFTC.
    Eastern brigade task force a non runner.I believe the quote from the civvies was "What part of two brigades don't ye understand!".
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

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  21. #18
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    Does this mean there will be a one third reduction in the number of officers assigned to Brig HQs etc and that there may be an increase in the bayonets to jam stealer ratio, Maybe amalgamate a few Batts, squadrons? batteries etc to reflect actual strengths , lighten the scramble eggs and brogues and make savings on wages / sorry salaries and probably make units more effective .

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  23. #19
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    What do you think?Have you ever known Orrificers to shaft their own??There has been a massive rush to promote as many officers as possible in the last few months.I wonder why??
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

    - Rob Reiner.

    "Yes he's an idiot with zero common sense,and no social skills,but he IS my son.I just hope he never goes into politics.He'd be a disaster.

    - Mary Anne Trump

    #unfollowtrump

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  25. #20
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The latest army cadet intake didn't appear any smaller.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  26. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryos View Post
    There is alot of speculation at the moment as to what way its all going to go, the recommendation was to provide a split Northern Command / Southern Command along the middle counties with the exception of Galway being southern command. How that effects the core units im not sure, for example what happens to the CIS, MP, Logs coys, do they simply have a MP B-Coy.

    Im just putting what i heard in the pot; no more reliable than anyone else
    for the love of God, please don't call them 'Northern' and 'Southern', and if you do, FFS don't have the Northern one as the capable, equipped one. it'll send the more gullable of the Northern Brethren into orbit.

    simple solution: 2 Bdes - 1 (Operations) Bde is the warry one with the Artillery, Armour and all the Biz, and 2 (Support) Bde is the one that does the recruit/career training, managing the RDF, does the deep maintainence, and has a 'public duties' Inf Bn to do the CIT/Prisoner Guard/etc..

    far better to have 1 over-manned operations formation than two under-manned ones trying to be all things for all tasks - keep it focused on training and operations and maybe use that extra Inf Bn within the Bde as the footprint for some of the other tasks/opportunities that are around: a Parachute Coy, an Amphibious/Maritime Coy, an SFSG Coy etc.., and get the Gunners you've not got Guns for attached to the Inf Bns to get FS right down to the lowest levels of the Bde.

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  28. #22
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    ALL cav/arty and engrs to be centrallised in the DFTC.
    Makes sense in that you could probably reduce the squadron numbers to probably two fully operational capable squadrons and retain the school in some format, same with arty.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  29. #23
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    One of the major problems with reduction from 3 to 2 BEFORE white paper is de-facto-> the conversation starts from a 2 Bde structure not a 3 . Pretty soon the bean counters have you down to a 1 Bde structure ( ah sure you only need 1 ) and we're back to 1955 or whatever time that was our lowest FTE total
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  30. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    What do you think?Have you ever known Orrificers to shaft their own??There has been a massive rush to promote as many officers as possible in the last few months.I wonder why??
    Quite a few of those promotions would have been from 2L/t to Lt and quite a few of those had missed what they would have considered in the past as the normal one year transition.

  31. #25
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    Yet after all this change and attempts to turn the DF into a more effective force... The Horsey School will still continue to exist and still use up DF resources and manpower.

    Change for the sake of change, without any serious attempts at turning the DF into anything like an effective fighting force... Is pointless and nothing more than political point scoring.

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