Army re-org from 3 Brigades to 2

[DeV]

Conventional you would say 1 corps unit per brigade. If there is a task force for Dublin will be interesting!

[apod]

Heard a couple of good ones last week.All rumours so don't go off crying just yet.
ALL cav/arty and engrs to be centrallised in the DFTC.
Eastern brigade task force a non runner.I believe the quote from the civvies was "What part of two brigades don't ye understand!".

[BANDIT]

Does this mean there will be a one third reduction in the number of officers assigned to Brig HQs etc and that there may be an increase in the bayonets to jam stealer ratio, Maybe amalgamate a few Batts, squadrons? batteries etc to reflect actual strengths , lighten the scramble eggs and brogues and make savings on wages / sorry salaries and probably make units more effective .

[apod]

What do you think?Have you ever known Orrificers to shaft their own??There has been a massive rush to promote as many officers as possible in the last few months.I wonder why??

[Goldie fish]

The latest army cadet intake didn't appear any smaller.

[ropebag]

There is alot of speculation at the moment as to what way its all going to go, the recommendation was to provide a split Northern Command / Southern Command along the middle counties with the exception of Galway being southern command. How that effects the core units im not sure, for example what happens to the CIS, MP, Logs coys, do they simply have a MP B-Coy.

Im just putting what i heard in the pot; no more reliable than anyone else

for the love of God, please don't call them 'Northern' and 'Southern', and if you do, FFS don't have the Northern one as the capable, equipped one. it'll send the more gullable of the Northern Brethren into orbit.

simple solution: 2 Bdes - 1 (Operations) Bde is the warry one with the Artillery, Armour and all the Biz, and 2 (Support) Bde is the one that does the recruit/career training, managing the RDF, does the deep maintainence, and has a 'public duties' Inf Bn to do the CIT/Prisoner Guard/etc..

far better to have 1 over-manned operations formation than two under-manned ones trying to be all things for all tasks - keep it focused on training and operations and maybe use that extra Inf Bn within the Bde as the footprint for some of the other tasks/opportunities that are around: a Parachute Coy, an Amphibious/Maritime Coy, an SFSG Coy etc.., and get the Gunners you've not got Guns for attached to the Inf Bns to get FS right down to the lowest levels of the Bde.

[hptmurphy]

ALL cav/arty and engrs to be centrallised in the DFTC.

Makes sense in that you could probably reduce the squadron numbers to probably two fully operational capable squadrons and retain the school in some format, same with arty.

[trellheim]

One of the major problems with reduction from 3 to 2 BEFORE white paper is de-facto-> the conversation starts from a 2 Bde structure not a 3 . Pretty soon the bean counters have you down to a 1 Bde structure ( ah sure you only need 1 ) and we're back to 1955 or whatever time that was our lowest FTE total

[terrier]

What do you think?Have you ever known Orrificers to shaft their own??There has been a massive rush to promote as many officers as possible in the last few months.I wonder why??

Quite a few of those promotions would have been from 2L/t to Lt and quite a few of those had missed what they would have considered in the past as the normal one year transition.

[Hello Alaska]

Yet after all this change and attempts to turn the DF into a more effective force... The Horsey School will still continue to exist and still use up DF resources and manpower.

Change for the sake of change, without any serious attempts at turning the DF into anything like an effective fighting force... Is pointless and nothing more than political point scoring.

[Hello Alaska]

Heard a couple of good ones last week.All rumours so don't go off crying just yet.
ALL cav/arty and engrs to be centrallised in the DFTC.
Eastern brigade task force a non runner.I believe the quote from the civvies was "What part of two brigades don't ye understand!".

Someone should tell the civvie's to **** off, since they haven't the slightest clue about the DF or anything involved in running one.

Shower of eejits.

[Goldie fish]

Someone should tell the civvie's to **** off, since they haven't the slightest clue about the DF or anything involved in running one.

Shower of eejits.

To defend by bean counting civvy brethern for a moment, I have to say that where it falls down is not with the civvys saying "you don't need it". The problem is the DF not saying "this is what I need and why". Instead they seem to say "well we always had them before", presuming the civvy at the other side will mindread and know exactly the purpose this piece of equipment or unit formation served, in days before the civvy knew what the DF was, or why it existed.

When the civvy's eventually **** off, what you are left with is what is commonly known as a Junta, or stratocracy. Junta's rarely end well for anyone involved.
Just ask Argentina, Chile, Haiti or Burma.

[Charlie Echo]

This may be of use in the discussion;

Percentage of vacancies unfilled as of the 29th of February 2012 based on an established strength of 10000 and does not include the 600 recruits or 42 cadets. There are currently 4518 Ptes of a possible 4763 Ptes (or other service equivalents) in the DF, so the additional 600 recruits will at the very least fill all of the available vacancies at that level.

I wasn't able to find the figures relevant to the new strength of 9500. This is based on a Parliamentary Question by Dara Calleary.

	Commissioned Ranks	Other Ranks (combined)	NCOs	Ptes
Army	20%	25%	35%	5%
AC	6%	25%	31%	6%
NS	8%	27%	33%	2%
Total	18%	26%	32%	5%

EDIT: my numbers were off - one column too far to the left in excel...

[apod]

Quite a few of those promotions would have been from 2L/t to Lt and quite a few of those had missed what they would have considered in the past as the normal one year transition.

My heart bleeds for them.Really.
Hard to feel any pity for the gentlemen when you are doing three regimentals a week because we don't have enough NCO's.When you have a battalion with NO CS's.That's right.None.
When you have a Sgt doing the job of a BSM.
Hard to feel pity when you have officers taking jobs overseas that were always NCO positions just so they can have an overseas trip on their CV.Dining hall officer??Seriously.
Sorry if this offends some in their ivory towers but the DF is MASSIVELY top heavy with officers.The writing is on the wall at the moment as they are now in the civvies firing line as the troop numbers dwindle and the O Corps has largely stayed the same.be interesting to see if someone will have the balls to pension off some of the hierarchy and put a stop to cadet classes for a year or two until we get down to the number we really should have.
I doubt it though.Turkeys don't vote for christmas.

[Hello Alaska]

To defend by bean counting civvy brethern for a moment, I have to say that where it falls down is not with the civvys saying "you don't need it". The problem is the DF not saying "this is what I need and why". Instead they seem to say "well we always had them before", presuming the civvy at the other side will mindread and know exactly the purpose this piece of equipment or unit formation served, in days before the civvy knew what the DF was, or why it existed.

When the civvy's eventually **** off, what you are left with is what is commonly known as a Junta, or stratocracy. Junta's rarely end well for anyone involved.
Just ask Argentina, Chile, Haiti or Burma.

I think we're a far stretch from a Junta in sunny Ireland.

My point was that, if the General Staff are trying to work the re-org into what they see as the future for the DF, the reply from civvie's shouldn't be "What part of 2 Brigade's don't you understand" or anything along those lines, especially when they're not the ones trying to implement the re-org.

My heart bleeds for them.Really.
Hard to feel any pity for the gentlemen when you are doing three regimentals a week because we don't have enough NCO's.When you have a battalion with NO CS's.That's right.None.
When you have a Sgt doing the job of a BSM.
Hard to feel pity when you have officers taking jobs overseas that were always NCO positions just so they can have an overseas trip on their CV.Dining hall officer??Seriously.
Sorry if this offends some in their ivory towers but the DF is MASSIVELY top heavy with officers.The writing is on the wall at the moment as they are now in the civvies firing line as the troop numbers dwindle and the O Corps has largely stayed the same.be interesting to see if someone will have the balls to pension off some of the hierarchy and put a stop to cadet classes for a year or two until we get down to the number we really should have.
I doubt it though.Turkeys don't vote for christmas.

I heard about the situation in the Leb with NCO's positions suddenly becoming Officers positions... Unreal.

Someone needs to give the Cadet School and indeed, the General Staff and anyone above Comdt a kick up the hole and remind them that being an Officer is a position of duty, not a position of privilege(Sp?).