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  1. #126
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    "
    if Ireland can genuinely get itself back to a truly neutral position
    ".

    Only if we dig up Devalera and put him back in power

    (a) hes dead
    (b) The Ireland concept failed.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  2. #127
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    "if Ireland can genuinely get itself back to a truly neutral position".

    LOL

    Ah g'wan Sinn Fein, role out the "NATO compatible PC-9's" gambit again.

    I really don't think they're stupid enough to believe what they're saying - they're spouting nonsense because it's effective in reaching out to a certain type of Irish person, whose understanding of our military history & how we fit into the wider world, is effectively zilch.
    You mean the Shame fail voter?


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    You mean the Shame fail voter?
    The disaffected flower people.

    Having fun thinking about what "truly neutral position" SF want us to go back to - is it the one with British occupied ports around the coast? Or the one with British listening stations in Donegal for enemy naval activity? Or is it the one where we've got no problem being part of a military alliance and would really really like free US equipment, except if that means recognizing partition?

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  5. #129
    Brigadier General
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    "if Ireland can genuinely get itself back to a truly neutral position".

    LOL

    Ah g'wan Sinn Fein, role out the "NATO compatible PC-9's" gambit again.

    I really don't think they're stupid enough to believe what they're saying - they're spouting nonsense because it's effective in reaching out to a certain type of Irish person, whose understanding of our military history & how we fit into the wider world, is effectively zilch.
    The backroom boys are anything but stupid. they know there are plenty of braindeads out there who do not vote . and it's just a matter of finding the right
    catch phrase or convince them they are victums of something or other to get them down to the polling booth.

  6. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    The backroom boys are anything but stupid. they know there are plenty of braindeads out there who do not vote . and it's just a matter of finding the right
    catch phrase or convince them they are victums of something or other to get them down to the polling booth.
    If those same braindeads out there get those shame fein scumbag terrorist groupies elected, they certainly will be victims; we all will be.

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  8. #131
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    The ONLY good that would EVER come from Scum Féin getting into power would be how quickly they'd be found out. Only problem is that many many would suffer until they could be booted out. Populist shitebags.
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

  9. #132
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Invoking Godwins rule.

    The path SF is currently following is the same route the Nazi Party took. There are other similarities too if you look closer.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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  11. #133
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Invoking Godwins rule.

    The path SF is currently following is the same route the Nazi Party took. There are other similarities too if you look closer.
    Both a shower of wankers?
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

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  13. #134
    Brigadier General
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    shin fein come to power, will they ban elections in the name of the Irish people, and turn us in to a marxist state.

    Are the Army who are sworn to uphold the Constitution going to roll out the 105s and make it two nil.?

  14. #135
    Ex-bagger Big Al's Avatar
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    Sinn Fein as a minority coalition partner, as distasteful as it sounds, might be good in the long run if they were to get wiped out like the greens or the PDs
    You're even dumber than I tell people

    You might have been infected but you never were a bore

  15. #136
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    It's the damage they do while in there is the problem.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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  17. #137
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    Were the internet around in 1932, there would be lads be saying the same about Fianna Fáil, that they destroy the economy if they got in, etc.

    And they'd be right

  18. #138
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Some of us were saying that in the early noughts!

  19. #139
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    PDFORRA's views
    http://pdforra.ie/news/?p=992

    A veterans' policy
    Keep the triple lock
    Increase the strength to 10,500
    Reverse the reorg
    A "dedicated training establishment"

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Increase the strength to 10,500
    Never going to happen

    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Reverse the reorg
    Never going to happen

    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    A "dedicated training establishment"
    As opposed to the BTC staffs in each Bde, Inf School, NCOTW, UNTSI, C&S School, Arty School, Cav School, Engineer School, MP School, Transport School, Catering School, Ordnance School, CIS School and Medical School?


    If that article is accurate as to PDFORRA's submission on the Whitepaper I am very disappointed. RACOs submission covers additional capabilities so as to future proof the roles of the DF and to ensure that there is funding there for that in 10 years time as opposed to suddenly realising we need to be able to provide X role and needing to take the money out of the same pot. PDFORRAs submission seems to be very much focused on trying to get back what they feel they lost in the past as opposed to trying to build a future for their members

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  22. #141
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    It's an official PDFORRA article so it should be assumed it is correct

  23. #142
    Friend Saab's Avatar
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    At our work do the other night one of my managers proceeded to tell me about his mate.
    Evidently he is a captain in an affluent post.
    On his wages and un duty money he lives comfortably with his wife and 2kids in a 4 bed semi-d.

    This is a stark contrast to the posts that have been put on IMO telling of soldiers needing hand outs because of poor pay and conditions.

    Isn't it no wonder then that RACCO and PDFORRA have totally differing points of view.

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  25. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saab View Post
    On his wages and un duty money he lives comfortably with his wife and 2kids in a 4 bed semi-d.
    So you begrudge a Captain his overseas allowances but not an enlisted man? These allowances were cut this year BTW.

    I do not know where this Captain lives but if he is living in a rural area a 4 bed semi D could be worth as little as 100k

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  27. #144
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    And if he is receiving UN duty money he isn't living in his office as he is overseas

    Nothing to say that the wife doesn't have a highly paid job

    Maybe he inherited the house/bought before the boom
    Last edited by DeV; 22nd December 2013 at 00:41.

  28. #145
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnight oil View Post
    Never going to happen


    Never going to happen


    As opposed to the BTC staffs in each Bde, Inf School, NCOTW, UNTSI, C&S School, Arty School, Cav School, Engineer School, MP School, Transport School, Catering School, Ordnance School, CIS School and Medical School?


    If that article is accurate as to PDFORRA's submission on the Whitepaper I am very disappointed. RACOs submission covers additional capabilities so as to future proof the roles of the DF and to ensure that there is funding there for that in 10 years time as opposed to suddenly realising we need to be able to provide X role and needing to take the money out of the same pot. PDFORRAs submission seems to be very much focused on trying to get back what they feel they lost in the past as opposed to trying to build a future for their members
    Their longing to retain the Triple lock is also well outside their remit, as a representative organisation.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  29. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saab View Post
    This is a stark contrast to the posts that have been put on IMO telling of soldiers needing hand outs because of poor pay and conditions.

    Isn't it no wonder then that RACCO and PDFORRA have totally differing points of view.
    The wages of officers and enlisted men of the PDF are a matter of public record. If one wants to see them, one can check the DOD website for the most up to date scales. Obviously the higher up the food chain you go the more you get paid.

    One also has to remember that plenty of officers and enlisted men made mistakes during the boom years and invested in property that should really have been outside their means, poor fiscal management is not determained by rank, having said that, getting paid monthly tends to force someone to budget a bit better. As well as the declaration of solvency thats taken upon comissioning.

    The other factor to consider is that when claiming benefits and social welfare the wages of both partners are taken into consideration. As a general point of comment, I would say that in my observation that it is considerably more likely for an officer in the PDF to be married to a salaried profesional such as a Dr, Solicitor or in the most unthinkable of scearios another officer (milcest!) etc than an enlisted man, thus boosting the household wage.

    This isn't to do with class, I think its more education. People who go to as non mature students tend to forge relationships whilst they are there, where they're more likely to meet someone with a professional career etc....
    Last edited by northie; 22nd December 2013 at 08:54.

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  31. #147
    Friend Saab's Avatar
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    I think some of you are reading something that I didn't actually say.

    I don't begrudge any one anything.

    IF
    As my manager says a captain, with wife ans 2 kids, is able to live comfortably
    AND
    As a number of IMOers have posted other ranks are struggling and requiring income support to survive.
    THEN
    RACCO and PDFORRA have very different concerns and thus will view things differently.

    I make no comment on this situation other than it's reason for being.

  32. #148
    4 Star General andy's Avatar
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    The Defence Forces are too small and too ill equipped. I have to agree about making Defence 1.5% of GDP and increasing troop numbers to 10,500 at least but I can't see how that will ever happen.

    As for hardware we could do with some leopard tanks, 2 frigates and some kind of jet like the Grippen but of course that is all a bit OTT for Ireland.

  33. #149
    Private 3* The Connaught Ranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy View Post
    As for hardware we could do with some leopard tanks, 2 frigates and some kind of jet like the Grippen but of course that is all a bit OTT for Ireland.
    Agree with most of what you say - the frigates and jets make perfect sense, but really, what on earth does this country need Leopard tanks for?? They'd never be deployed and by the time we'd need them here it'd be too late unless we want to ensure the "love Ulstrer" mob do not walk doen O'Connell street but I think even the Scorpions could manage to stop that.

  34. #150
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    So now all the submissions are in, presentations more or less done. Does anyone want to make any White Paper predictions?

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