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  1. #1
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    Assessments 2012

    Not long to go now, are there many IMO heads going this year? Will be there myself. Think it was a good move to get the full week for it, at least we will have time to get our drills sorted and adapt to our new surroundings etc. We had a week prelim training already so hoping to build on it when we get down as we already know eachother and the team spirit has already been established.

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  3. #2
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Yes... I am going ..... playing a Sith Lord this time. Bring mozzie rep.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  5. #3
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    forget it, my Bn is assigned other duties and hasnt been asked to take part. probably because we dont need a weeks handholding to get the drills right as we showed you all up last year

    But on a more serious note, hope this new interesting format works out for all and I look forward to your debriefs!
    Last edited by morpheus; 2nd August 2012 at 15:20.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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    Can't make it this year. Glad to see the format has changed though. I'm looking forward to hearing about how it was conducted.

  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    probably because we dont need a weeks handholding to get the drills right as we showed you all up last year
    Handholding? Ah come on, you mean to tell me that ye were perfect!? Cockiness leads to complacency!

    Not all units train together or even have access to weapons on a regular basis, tis the nature of the beast. I'm damn glad it's a week, I can't comment on last year but 2 years ago it was not the best to land on a friday night in the glen not knowing who everyone is or what their capabilities are, those who know me know the lengths it took me to get there, and the journey I had after it was all over!

    Looking forward to what they concoct for us this year. Why aren't the East being assessed, are they that good or is it a manday/accomodation issue? Answers on a postcard please.

    Last year taking part in the old brigade structure as well.

  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infy View Post
    Looking forward to what they concoct for us this year. Why aren't the East being assessed, are they that good or is it a manday/accomodation issue? Answers on a postcard please.

    Last year taking part in the old brigade structure as well.
    My moneys on the East being assessed in October by Westies and Southies then.

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp369 View Post
    My moneys on the East being assessed in October by Westies and Southies then.
    You mean the North

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  11. #8
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    I believe its just my own Bn thats not being assessed, were on camp that week.

    I cant vouch for other elements of the east. anyway next year it'll be like the american civil war.... North vs South :D

    na i think the week long idea is a good one and i really hope it works and that all units who take part take the drills back with them and it continues!!!

    onwards and upwards.

    last year wasnt too bad and we all made mistakes, just thankfully ours werent horrendous ones, again this comes with practice and the week should iron most of that out.

    If you're there as an NCO, my advice, watch for individual problems in your sections, such as
    reaction to effective enemy fire,
    fire and maneoever of assault teams,
    camo,
    how theyve packed their gear
    and what theyve brought,
    more importantly NOT brought,
    remaining in cover whilst in contact and
    using proper personal moving techniques - leopard crawl, bear crawl etc,
    their movement as a section,
    their spacing,
    your section operating in a platoon formation,
    obstacles
    radiomen,
    link men,
    gunners,
    personal admin of the 3 stars is key,
    they should know it, sadly they most certainly wont all know it and you dont want someone in your section taking a dive,

    watch for those who still rock out on the ground in 24Bs or parade boots, id prefer nobody to do that, but HAIX arent issued and some people cannot afford / dont make the effort to buy tac boots. fine if thats whats got to be, ensure youve drilled into them that they look after their feet at least.

    the PDF can only cover so much and its up to us (junior ncos) to detect and correct that other stuff ASAP.

    with 3 stars you expect all of the above to be sorted and more but it wont be and as a result youre going to need MORE time to get the war fighting stuff done if you DONT get this shit nailed early on.

    best of luck lads.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  13. #9
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    Good advice there morph, just to add as an nco help your sgt as best you can, he/she will have enough on their plate from the officer and company hq. The sgt is the busiest person out there!

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  15. #10
    Corporal Mr. Tezza's Avatar
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    I'll be there, got a fone call the other day from the cadre asking if I COULD go, said I COULD so now apparently I'm going! but as yet have no clue what I'll be doing up there...

    MOD: No Text speak.Fixed that for you.
    Last edited by apod; 2nd August 2012 at 17:40.

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  17. #11
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    heading along as well got a last minute phone call after our 3 star camp saying they needed extra people. so kindly accepted hope i haven't forgotten to much since October last

  18. #12
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    I believe its just my own Bn thats not being assessed, were on camp that week.

    I cant vouch for other elements of the east. anyway next year it'll be like the american civil war.... North vs South :D

    na i think the week long idea is a good one and i really hope it works and that all units who take part take the drills back with them and it continues!!!

    onwards and upwards.

    last year wasnt too bad and we all made mistakes, just thankfully ours werent horrendous ones, again this comes with practice and the week should iron most of that out.

    If you're there as an NCO, my advice, watch for individual problems in your sections, such as
    reaction to effective enemy fire,
    fire and maneoever of assault teams,
    camo,
    how theyve packed their gear
    and what theyve brought,
    more importantly NOT brought,
    remaining in cover whilst in contact and
    using proper personal moving techniques - leopard crawl, bear crawl etc,
    their movement as a section,
    their spacing,
    your section operating in a platoon formation,
    obstacles
    radiomen,
    link men,
    gunners,
    personal admin of the 3 stars is key,
    they should know it, sadly they most certainly wont all know it and you dont want someone in your section taking a dive,


    watch for those who still rock out on the ground in 24Bs or parade boots, id prefer nobody to do that, but HAIX arent issued and some people cannot afford / dont make the effort to buy tac boots. fine if thats whats got to be, ensure youve drilled into them that they look after their feet at least.

    the PDF can only cover so much and its up to us (junior ncos) to detect and correct that other stuff ASAP.

    with 3 stars you expect all of the above to be sorted and more but it wont be and as a result youre going to need MORE time to get the war fighting stuff done if you DONT get this shit nailed early on.

    best of luck lads.
    Your belief is incorrect.

    Why is it the job of the PDF to correct individual's fieldcraft?

  19. #13
    Lower than a snakes balls Duffman's Avatar
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    Is it the PDF or the RDF running the assessments? We encountered some power tripping clowns as "assessors" last year who did not have a clue what was going on. To any NCOs do not be afraid to make a decision in front of an asessor, equally they should not be interfering with your troops so politely tell them to go funk themselves where appropriate if they get in the way.

    Listen to the debrief and report back what was said. Too often to senior types ignore advice and SOPs. If it's being addressed it should be corrected as opposed to ignored.
    "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

    "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

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  21. #14
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Hopefully the ammo fairy visits, i'll be raging running around with empty cefo when a chest rig would have done the job.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  22. #15
    Sergeant madmark's Avatar
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    i will be there myself this year apparently the cav are needed to mind ye
    Last edited by madmark; 2nd August 2012 at 19:43.
    Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

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  24. #16
    Corporal Mr. Tezza's Avatar
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    MOD: No Text speak.Fixed that for you.
    Apologies for that, was a reply off my mobile...

    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    Hopefully the ammo fairy visits, i'll be raging running around with empty cefo when a chest rig would have done the job.
    Thats was the story when I went up there as enemy a few years ago, got 2 mags (not full) for the day, that was fun...
    Last edited by Mr. Tezza; 2nd August 2012 at 20:23.

  25. #17
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    Wont be there this year, work commitments :(
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  26. #18
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    I will be there. Glad of the weeks training and the new format too!
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

  27. #19
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Your belief is incorrect.
    Why is it the job of the PDF to correct individual's fieldcraft?
    What I meant was that as there is a week this time, there is obviously a long run up to the exercise to iron out problems.

    I assume that the PDF (not all PDF on this will be DS's or Assessors, Id assume there are cadre?) will have some involvement in ensuring that no RDF instructor gets a rush of sh*t to the head and decides to teach the troops their own SOPs and drills that they've made up outside of manuals etc due to them possibly being removed from "out on the ground" and tactics for an extended period of time (as can happen).

    Id hope that whatever way the RDF command sees fit to standardise fieldcraft, drills, etc that it will be supervised and I assume (and f**king hope) will be corrected should someone do something wrong.

    Look at it this way, we all know there are varying levels of knowledge and skills in the organisation, we need to correct that and I hope it will be addressed when we finally find out what the future of the RDF is....

    in the meantime I can guarantee you that if I took a cross section of RDF members from random units around the country today and stood them in a field as a platoon, or even as sections and ran through SIA's or even PIA's that the level of knowledge on personal admin in the field and fieldcraft in general would osscilate wildly between very switched on to not having a clue. Yes this isnt a 3 stars fault its his instructors fault, however there would be variances in the same knowledge, ranging from right along the doctrine line to up the middle with smoke and over the top.... right up through the ranks because not everyone does it by the manual or even close to the manual.

    THIS is the issue that needs to be addressed and if those instructing you are not being supervised and corrected themselves, well then whats the bloody point of it all?
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  29. #20
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    Yep I shall be there but in a support role.

  30. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    THIS is the issue that needs to be addressed and if those instructing you are not being supervised and corrected themselves, well then whats the bloody point of it all?
    All very much true.

    However, you can only spend so much time correcting troops on their mistakes before you have to go and do the job.

    Things like making sure you're in proper cover, crawling from firing position to firing position, running up the flank like your daysack is on fire, proper patrolling, obstacle crossing drills etc. is at the end of the day, all down to the individual soldier. I mean, it's stuff your taught as a Recruit and will do time and time again throughout your career. To not carry out the drills properly is down to pure laziness and not taking things too seriously.

    Part of the problem is two fold IMO, one is that when conducting an Ex with blanks, if there's no TESS gear involved, having someone fire blanks is, well a bit underwhelming. You know the only way you'll be killed is if a DS decides you are. Two, is a lack of troops carrying realistic combat loads. Personally speaking, I know that I could do without stinging my mates with dragging me out of a contact while in CBA, fully packed Battlevest and a daysack with all manner of shit in it. In the same way that I could do without coming into contact on a recce patrol or CTR because running, crawling and generally moving at a fast pace in all that kit is a wee bit disheartening. However, if I was just rocking around in half packed CEFO... Well, **** it, life wouldn't be too bad.

    Troops need to be reminded of the consequences of lazy drills. It won't be the NCO carrying a stretcher with 11 or 12 stone of human on it. It won't be the NCO dragging or carrying someone back to the CCP etc.

    Excuses or "Well they're not getting enough instruction" can only go so far before people need to take responsibility for their own skills as a soldier.
    Last edited by Hello Alaska; 3rd August 2012 at 16:12.

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  32. #22
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Its an assessment not a tutorial.

    the OP ord should include everything that is being tested and should include all whats needed straight from what has been posted here by the likes of apod.

    If your peeps can get somewhere near that load, so much the better.

    If you have a crew you have no faith in, you might as well stay at home, an NCOs work load is heavy enough without the babysitting aspect.

    Drills are only learned by repetition and having them right in the first place.

    Anyone interfering while the assessment is being carried out should be reported having been told to fcuk off first regardless of rank.

    DS staff are there to assess, not to interfere.

    You know what is expected,take your time, plenty of tac aides, spread the work load amongst your men and manage them as opposed to try to take it on your self.

    A good 2 ic and a good signaller will keep you out of the shit.Don't let events overtake you, slow it all down to a pace that you can cope with,

    Army SIA competition a few years back the winning team took an hour and a half to put in the attack, but had it done by the numbers.

    Don't let DS staff rush you, its your OP run it at your pace.

    You may not be able to get your hands on all the gucci kit you might think you need but then again who ever has enough.

    My opinion a lot of this assessment and how it works or dosen't is down to the DS, making sure they do what they are supposed to do will reflect on how people perform.

    Any one on the sidelines watching DS trying to fcuk people about should report it.Guys are under enough pressure any bit of assistance is welcome.

    Was there as security element a few years back my self and saw the DS at work . Play fair and do the job.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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  34. #23
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    Its also important to be flexible with regards to SIA's and PIA's. No enemy force will act as a text book case, adapt to the situation at hand and if you see a chance for exploitation, use it, even if its far from the attacking norms.

  35. #24
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I remember taking great pleasure in clearing a DS who was trying to rush my O Group. "Don't interrupt me , sir" I said in the low tone I was once famous (locally) for. "Who do you think you are?" he says. "The Person in charge"- sez I.
    All objectives were achieved, and we made it back to the RV in plenty of time, and transport wasn't even late.
    Know your job, and the man above, and below you. You never know when you may have to do either.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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  37. #25
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    I assume that the PDF (not all PDF on this will be DS's or Assessors, Id assume there are cadre?)
    Of course no PDF has EVER had a rush of blood to their head. As regards to Cadre, you mean you want PDF rejects who are at least 10 years behind the latest doctrine in tactics to DS the troops. If that is what you want expect plenty of up the middle with smoke then.

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