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  1. #126
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    Bungie jumping is daft the other two may be necessary

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  3. #127
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    I am sure there are fit soldiers probably fitter as a body than they were in the 70s . Although we were probably tougher..( Hairy long johns etc I rest my case).
    Having to put up with shite kit does not make you tougher.
    The challenge nowadays is that u take guys from a soft PC western society and attempt to turn them into soldiers that may if they face combat have to do the mOST anti PC activities and sometimes deal with militias, Armies who may be technologically inferior but are just tough fit bastards. The average Afghan, Somali, DRC third world wahtever is just physically tougher .
    Honestly i really wonder if you think before you post sometimes.The so called "Playstation generation" have been fighting and dying in some of the worlds worst shitholes for over a decade now and have not been found wanting.In fact they have proven they are every bit as tough as those who have gone before.For you to disparage their efforts by design or default is nothing short of disgraceful.
    Also our soldiers still live in the soft western society. Home on weekends , etc . Cannot be changed
    Where else would soldiers be if not on duty?Soldiers have families too you know.
    Look we have beaches being closed today in Irealnd because of a potentail E Coli infection,, do not wash yr hands after the loo and u can get E Coli infection.
    Your point?Would you like to see children getting sick??

    So we must not expose soldiers to unnecessary hazards in training but we must toughen them up and test them to the absolute limit because someday they may need to draw on that experience and it will save their life or win he battle.So inclement weather is not an excuse its a challenge
    Totally agree.If it ain't raining we ain't training
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

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    "Yes he's an idiot with zero common sense,and no social skills,but he IS my son.I just hope he never goes into politics.He'd be a disaster.

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  5. #128
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    "Having to put up with shite kit does not make you tougher" .
    No But you do become used to discomfort. ---not that that was the reeason for hairy long johns, They were invented by the brothers I think ..

    The play station generation. Yes there are members of the play station generation who have fought in some shitholes but and its a big BUTTT the logistic tail in supporting many of them is so long that it feeds the very people they are often fighting and its not all about being based in a sangar in a remote part of Afghanistan. Just compare what is happening in Somalia with the AU troops who are a lot leaner in terms of creature comforts cheaper than a similar UN or western army a much smaller Logs tail and thus less targets for the enemy. And pls do not think that I consider this adventure a success,
    As regards living in the western world, I understand that soldiers must also have a normal western life and this is the challenge .. to switch from central heating to freezing yr rocks off and working effeciently ( in the rain if necessary)

    E Coli warnings , Panic in case someone picks up a bug and sues . There is a lot of medical reserach that indicates that the increasing levels of asthma, and other allergies are connected to a lack of normal exposure of people to everyday bugs. Not suggesting that u stick your head in a sewer but one should not have to call a sanitation technician if the loo gets blocked..

    Interesting that in the same or previous weekend the liffey swim took place ,now that I would not do.. So Much for E Coli . A few slow days at work ,, so read IMO

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  7. #129
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit View Post
    "having to put up with shite kit does not make you tougher" .
    No but you do become used to discomfort. ---not that that was the reason for hairy long johns, they were invented by the brothers i think ....
    lmfao... :-d
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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  9. #130
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    kmfa

  10. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    New Sen NCO, YO, Std Officer for example. fingers crossed Sen NCO is on again next year.
    Why is new doctrine not being passed on apart from when on career courses? TC/TI's should be sent to units because people will still keep teaching how they where taught on their course. And I wouldn't say they're wrong to do so either. One a year when you only have a platoon of your battalion and are already focused on the exercise at hand is plain silly. But if the new format allows ample opportunity to learn and implement new doctrine then thats a big improvement.

  11. #132
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    In the main it is changes in drills/SOPs most of which change every few years and can't even be found in the manuals.

    It is up to people on courses to pass on the latest info to their peers (and their affiliated units)

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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    In the main it is changes in drills/SOPs most of which change every few years and can't even be found in the manuals.

    It is up to people on courses to pass on the latest info to their peers (and their affiliated units)
    I would rather it in writing because as we all know 30 people get taught one thing and something slightly different gets passed on in-unit.

  14. #134
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I know what you mean but if not done that way in the PDF........

  15. #135
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    TC's/TI' ARE regularly sent out to all units in the DF via the Intranet.Now.tell me how many RDF Offrs and NCO's check the Intranet or even have access to it.?
    Also you can read about how to do patrol contact drills(for example) all day but their is no substitute for hands on training.TTP's are constantly updating and those who go on the most recent courses pass down the knowledge and handouts/precis as required.
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

    - Rob Reiner.

    "Yes he's an idiot with zero common sense,and no social skills,but he IS my son.I just hope he never goes into politics.He'd be a disaster.

    - Mary Anne Trump

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  16. #136
    Provost colonel decker's Avatar
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    i wonder will they run the assessments in the same format next year?
    OK Smith it’s Colonel Decker. I hate it when a plan comes together. You’re surrounded. I want you and Peck and Baracus, to throw out your weapons, all the ration packs you stole and come out with your hands up. You have fifteen seconds.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    TC's/TI' ARE regularly sent out to all units in the DF via the Intranet.Now.tell me how many RDF Offrs and NCO's check the Intranet or even have access to it ?
    Also you can read about how to do patrol contact drills(for example) all day but their is no substitute for hands on training.TTP's are constantly updating and those who go on the most recent courses pass down the knowledge and handouts/precis as required.
    The latter is the problem, TBH, Apod....
    Last edited by Truck Driver; 24th August 2012 at 15:55.
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  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    TC's/TI' ARE regularly sent out to all units in the DF via the Intranet.Now.tell me how many RDF Offrs and NCO's check the Intranet or even have access to it.?
    Also you can read about how to do patrol contact drills(for example) all day but their is no substitute for hands on training.TTP's are constantly updating and those who go on the most recent courses pass down the knowledge and handouts/precis as required.

    That is the theory of what should happen I would think but in reality it doesn't allied to the fact that only a chosen few get to go on courses. Earlier on this year I made enquiries about a certain course and asked to considered if it was on but never heard a thing until I went on camp to find out the course did run. The notification of the course being on was not passed to our unit.

  19. #139
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    With regard to the RDF we cannot fix your unit politics ( my experience is usually that the communication HAS reached the unit and it enters limbo while someone, usually with a green beret, decides to be part of the problem ).

    However - that is not to say we cannot help. You won't find confidential info here but what is wrong with a PM to one of the mods ? If we don't know the answer one of the others can probably find out ( ve haff ways ) and let you know with a quiet word.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

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  21. #140
    Provost colonel decker's Avatar
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    Or a glen without a red patch.
    OK Smith it’s Colonel Decker. I hate it when a plan comes together. You’re surrounded. I want you and Peck and Baracus, to throw out your weapons, all the ration packs you stole and come out with your hands up. You have fifteen seconds.

  22. #141
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cplmick View Post
    [/COLOR][/B]
    That is the theory of what should happen I would think but in reality it doesn't allied to the fact that only a chosen few get to go on courses. Earlier on this year I made enquiries about a certain course and asked to considered if it was on but never heard a thing until I went on camp to find out the course did run. The notification of the course being on was not passed to our unit.
    Are you honestly telling me that NO young redarse Cpl or Sgt has ever turned around and said "we were shown a new way on my course"?? They probably have only to be told to be quiet as the seniors new better as "thats how we always do it".
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

    - Rob Reiner.

    "Yes he's an idiot with zero common sense,and no social skills,but he IS my son.I just hope he never goes into politics.He'd be a disaster.

    - Mary Anne Trump

    #unfollowtrump

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  24. #142
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    Apologies Apod....meant to like your post. I've had some experiences of that situation of bringing new ideas back to the unit and told, well that's not how we do it.....!
    Last edited by thedollar; 24th August 2012 at 22:46.
    Cry "havoc!", and let slip the dogs of war!

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  26. #143
    Corporal Mr. Tezza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Are you honestly telling me that NO young redarse Cpl or Sgt has ever turned around and said "we were shown a new way on my course"?? They probably have only to be told to be quiet as the seniors new better as "thats how we always do it".
    Yep, every year things change slightly when it comes to procedures for SIAs, PIAs etc, with lots of people having been taught different ways of doing things, personally I welcome being told theres a newer way of doing things and go along with it, until someone comes along and wants you to go back to doing it the older way again.

    But isn't that part of the assessments, teaching the older NCO's newer ways of doing things and giving the younger NCO's a taste of being an i/c or 2i/c of a section and being mentored at the same time so you can be told where you got it right/wrong...

    its a constant learning process

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  28. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Are you honestly telling me that NO young redarse Cpl or Sgt has ever turned around and said "we were shown a new way on my course"?? They probably have only to be told to be quiet as the seniors new better as "thats how we always do it".
    That's about the size of it.

    Trellheim, In the situation I mentioned I honestly don't know who stopped the info coming down the line, when I enquired one black beret blamed another black beret but I suspect a green beret was involved somewhere too.

  29. #145
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Re. "if it aint raining it aint training" and "PDF would have slept out in a hurricane" bla bla bla. On a PDF coy exercise during the week, weather wasn't as bad as what was forecast during assessments but still horrific on Tuesday night, when the rain started falling more than 50% of the Bods(P&R/DF) legged it to Vehicles/Tents for the night and stags were abandoned. Bods that had no bivi bags would have been hospitalised in the morning if they'd stayed out so it was common sense to seek proper shelter. Ditto if you had a bad spot for your bivi.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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  31. #146
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tezza View Post
    But isn't that part of the assessments, teaching the older NCO's newer ways of doing things and giving the younger NCO's a taste of being an i/c or 2i/c of a section and being mentored at the same time so you can be told where you got it right/wrong...

    its a constant learning process
    In the new format yes, the format probably had to changed though due to units not preparing (and training) their personnel adequately.

    Remember it is an assessment of where the brigades/units are at!

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  33. #147
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    33bn in action...


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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  35. #148
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post

    33bn in action...
    That wasn't the assessments, maybe 50% of the bods on the assessments were there for that.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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