Clothing

[DeV]

The Soldier 2010 thread got me thinking..... what should the layered uniform consist of?

My suggestions:
OG Driflo top (long and short sleeved)
DPM UBACS (maybe, or just driflos in DPM)
OG Norge (no point in DPM, shouldn't be an outer)
DPM Shirt
OG Jumper (for barracks use, a lot cheaper than a barracks jacket)
DPM/OG Snugpak type jacket (OG would be a lot cheaper)
DPM Smock
DPM Waterproof Jacket

OG Driflo underwear (long and short leg)
DPM Trousers (summer and winter versions)
DPM/OG Snugpak type over trousers (again OG would be a lot cheaper)
DPM Waterproof trousers

DPM Bush Hat
DPM/OG Skip Cap
DPM Elmer Fud Hat
OG Headover
DPM/OG/black Fingerless gloves
DPM/OG/black Waterproof gloves (also a liner glove)
DPM Mittens

[X-RayOne]

interesting idea....for PDF or RDF?

my suggestion would be as follows. i will take it as a standard issue common to both full-time and reserve with items issued as required (overseas, reserve 72 hr exs, etc.):

OG Driflo top (long and short sleeved. Long sleeved in heavier winter fabric weight with zip neck)
DPM Shirt
OG Snugpak type jacket
DPM Smock
DPM Waterproof Jacket
DPM Head-over
DPM Waterproof gloves (including OG liner glove)
DPM Bush Hat
DPM Skip Cap

OG Driflo underwear (long and short leg. Long leg in heavier winter fabric weight)
DPM Trousers (summer and winter versions)
OG Snugpak type over trousers
DPM Waterproof trousers

Overseas issue:
DPM Elmer Fud Hat
DPM Mittens
DPM UBACS

I would do away with Norgie, as to me, it seems a bit of a historical item. Driflo layers wick moisture better and Snugpak insulates better. Winter weight Driflos would nearly perform as well as Norgie for insulation. Winter Dryflo with Snugpak would far out perform Norgie.

DPM shirt would need to be changed to reflect smock pockets more. Thus allowing it be used as tactical lightweight outer for summer.

No need for jumper or barrack jacket. Current barrack jacket is a bit of a fashion trend in my opinion too. Shirt in barracks with smock if weather requires.

No need for fingerless gloves. Liner glove from waterproof glove would do same job. Waterproof glove should have good insulation too, not just waterproof shell.

Overseas items would cover cold and hot conditions outside normal Irish norms. UBACS is essentially Driflo with arm pockets so wicks same way as standard Driflo just allows better wear with CBA, etc.

[DeV]

I'm thinking for all (but some would be role/theatre dependant (or PDF only depending on conditions likely to be suffered), but this and nothing else.

My thinking (and the original thinking) is that this is the scale and nothing else.

The point of layering is that there are multiple layers which can be removed as required (hence the Norge).

Harder wearing "combat shirt" with revised pockets +1

My thinking on the jumper is its cheaper than barracks jacket and yet smart for inspections etc and smock is kept for duties/field use (plus in fairness barracks can be cold and it provides more insulation).

Good point of the gloves but I was thinking overseas.

Undecided on UBACS but +1 (could be overseas warm climate issue)

[X-RayOne]

layers still possible without Norgie....baselayer, shirt, Snugpak, smock, wet jacket. add/remove as required. Would be better again with proper winter grade baselayers as i suggested.

Jumper wouldn't wear well with current shirt i think. Different if we were going back to the old OG shirts...but thats not going to happen. Of course another way to look at it would be if Snugpak was to be issued generally, let that be the barrack jacket. Cheaper than issuing a barrack jacket and insulated tactical jacket. Snugpak would then be value for money in fulfilling two roles.
Only snag may be the more casual look around barracks. But would higher command accept that? Unfortunately not i think. Especially with the new more fashion conscious command in place .
Of course this raises the point about separation of dress and work/combat uniforms and how dressy do we need to be in barracks outside ceremonial duties.

[Truck Driver]

No need for jumper or barrack jacket. Current barrack jacket is a bit of a fashion trend in my opinion too. Shirt in barracks with smock if weather requires....

At this time, newer entrants to the RDF do not get the wooly pullys (AFAIK, they are only issued to PDF who require them - personnel in admin positions, staff car drivers, etc)

The Norgies are not a Bks wear item, thus no warm layer for over the shirt for cold training nights (which all of mine have been since the return after Xmas)

SOME kind of extra insulation is required, hence a jumper or a bks jacket. I'd have f***ing frozen without my extra layer

I would tend to agree that the Bks jackets have been somewhat of a "look good in bks item" rather than being functional, also they are not
currently on issue to RDF personnel, so SOME form of warm layer is required under the smock

As an aside, depsite the Admin Order for the Bks jacket saying it is only to be worn with DPMs, I am seeing more and more personnel wearing it
as a warm layer over SD No 3 (?) - shirt order with slacks

[trellheim]

warm layer over SD No 3 (?) - shirt order with slacks

Isn't that what the jumper's for ? It's the only reason I keep mine

[Truck Driver]

Isn't that what the jumper's for ? It's the only reason I keep mine

Well, you'd have to ask our full time counterparts that one....

[midnight oil]

jumpers are no longer on issue.

Seemingly originally they were going to issue the barrack jackets in both DPM and OG. The OG was to be worn with SDs

I do not like the look of the jackets with SDs either

[Fridge Magnet]

UBACS should not be Overseas issue.

Also, saw two RDF Officers wearing barrack jackets today, so some people are obviously getting issued them.

[Buck]

UBACS should not be Overseas issue.

Also, saw two RDF Officers wearing barrack jackets today, so some people are obviously getting issued them.

Saw plenty on the assessments and not all officers. Some drivers too.

[DeV]

UBACS should not be Overseas .

For ops at home too?

[Truck Driver]

jumpers are no longer on issue.

Seemingly originally they were going to issue the barrack jackets in both DPM and OG. The OG was to be worn with SDs

I do not like the look of the jackets with SDs either

Correct. When the initial jackets went on trial, there was both OG and DPM versions. The idea was that those in office/admin type positions would get an OG version, those in operational units would get the DPM version. I saw a guy in DFTC wearing an OG one with his DPM uniform, and it looked woeful. Thankfully sanity prevailed and only the DPM version went on issue...

[apod]

Most of the kit you mention is already on issue.Either for general service or as an overseas issue.Here's my take on it.

The Soldier 2010 thread got me thinking..... what should the layered uniform consist of?

My suggestions:
OG Driflo top (long and short sleeved) While I initially said I wasn't in favor of DPM Driflo,I can see its point.We where Driflos without shirts in camp overseas.Having it in DPM for uniformity and with velcro for rank patch makes sense.Saves us having to get em tailored in theatre)
DPM UBACS (maybe, or just driflos in DPM) DPM UBACS is coming in. Can be worn next to the skin or with another driflo underneath if cold.
OG Norge (no point in DPM, shouldn't be an outer) DPM Norgie can be worn as an outer layer in camp overseas on winter trips.Thats the idea.
DPM Shirt Should be kept for Bks use when UBACS goes on issue.Or for use as a summer outer layer in the field when CBA is not worn.
OG Jumper (for barracks use, a lot cheaper than a barracks jacket) OG jumper should be kept for wear with SDNo3.Bks jacket should be retained for mid layer use for duties etc and as working dress around bks.
DPM/OG Snugpak type jacket (OG would be a lot cheaper) Snugpak on limited issue already.Cant see them going on general issue aswell as the fleece.DPM wouldbe my preference and they would be better for field use as they are lighter and more compressable then the fleece.
DPM Smock keep it for winter field use.Carry in bergen during summer for night time use.
DPM Waterproof Jacket Replace with better version.Preferably Goretex.

OG Driflo underwear (long and short leg) Keep
DPM Trousers (summer and winter versions) Keep
DPM/OG Snugpak type over trousers (again OG would be a lot cheaper) Perhaps for recce and sniper teams or armour crews,having said that the armour crews are starting to get the DPM "Tank suits" now.They are fleece lined AFAIK.Not needed for general issue.
DPM Waterproof trousers keep

DPM Bush Hat Keep
DPM/OG Skip Cap DPM headover can be converted into a skip cap or facemask.Good kit.
DPM Elmer Fud Hat keep.Should be on general issue.Should be authorised for wear on CIT during winter.
OG Headover Already replaced by DPM version.
DPM/OG/black Fingerless gloves No need.Limited use.
DPM/OG/black Waterproof gloves (also a liner glove) DPM waterproof gloves already on issue.They also have anti pathogen coating in the lining.Liner gloves on issue for winter trips.
DPM Mittens

Not needed.Impractical.

I would do away with Norgie, as to me, it seems a bit of a historical item. Driflo layers wick moisture better and Snugpak insulates better. Winter weight Driflos would nearly perform as well as Norgie for insulation. Winter Dryflo with Snugpak would far out perform Norgie.
The new style Norgies('09 OG version and current DPM version) ARE like a winterweight DRIFLO.Microfleece inner.DRIFLO outer.Snugpak is great until it gets wet.

DPM shirt would need to be changed to reflect smock pockets more. Thus allowing it be used as tactical lightweight outer for summer.

Just add sleeve pockets like the new UBACS.But if UBACS is going to be used as a field use shirt than modifying what will be more or less a Bks only item would be a waste of money.

No need for jumper or barrack jacket. Current barrack jacket is a bit of a fashion trend in my opinion too. Shirt in barracks with smock if weather requires.

Until it gets really cold.I was out all day yesterday in weather that never climbed above 1 degree with a windchill that dropped the temperature down even furthur. After an hour everybody was going for their fleeces to put under their smocks as the smock and shirt were not enough.

No need for fingerless gloves. Liner glove from waterproof glove would do same job. Waterproof glove should have good insulation too, not just waterproof shell.

Agree on first point.Issue DPM w/proof glove has thinsulate lining.

Overseas items would cover cold and hot conditions outside normal Irish norms. UBACS is essentially Driflo with arm pockets so wicks same way as standard Driflo just allows better wear with CBA.

Bang on the money.What you said is the way we already issue kit.

layers still possible without Norgie....baselayer, shirt, Snugpak, smock, wet jacket. add/remove as required. Would be better again with proper winter grade baselayers as i suggested.

new Norgie is great when space and weight is a problem.IE in your already overflowing patrol pack that is weighed down with M.E kit and first line etc.

The Norgies are not a Bks wear item, thus no warm layer for over the shirt for cold training nights .

Norgies can easily be worn in Bks,and be neat, if worn right.It goes UNDER the shirt with the shirt sleeves down and pressed.Smock over that if reaaly cold.NOrgies were NEVER supposed be to worn over the shirt.Thats what the fleece jacket is for.

I would tend to agree that the Bks jackets have been somewhat of a "look good in bks item" rather than being functional, also they are not
currently on issue to RDF personnel, so SOME form of warm layer is required under the smock

Nothing wrong with Looking good in Bks.We dont do Adjs parade"In the field" do we? The DPM fleece is functional and can be warn as a midlayer under the smock or wets.Norgies are on issue to RDF.There's your warm layer.

UBACS should not be Overseas issue.

Also, saw two RDF Officers wearing barrack jackets today, so some people are obviously getting issued them.

Shouldn';t happen.they are not scaled for them.Yet.
AFAIK UBACS will be a GS item.They are buying thousands of them over the next three years.Was told yesterday by someone who has already been issued that the plan is for an issue of 2 per soldier.PDF only at the moment though.

[northie]

Its called getting kit off pdf that have gone on their tickets......

UBACS should not be Overseas issue.

Also, saw two RDF Officers wearing barrack jackets today, so some people are obviously getting issued them.

[Fridge Magnet]

For ops at home too?

Yep.

Between CIT's, Ex's, Courses... There's a lot of work that lads do which involves wearing their CBA.

An UBACS is needed for lads at home as well as Overseas.

AFAIK UBACS will be a GS item.They are buying thousands of them over the next three years.Was told yesterday by someone who has already been issued that the plan is for an issue of 2 per soldier.PDF only at the moment though.

That's great to hear. Any word on when they'll start making their way to the Units?