Thanks Thanks:  8
Likes Likes:  8
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Closed Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    The Valley of the Shadow of Death
    Posts
    3,160
    Post Thanks / Like

    Two soldiers die on Brecon Ex.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1115626/br...hs-in-heatwave

    Sad news.

    May they Rest in Peace.

  2. Thanks RoyalGreenJacket thanked for this post
    Likes hedgehog, hptmurphy liked this post
  3. #2
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    5,648
    Post Thanks / Like
    Rest in peace.

  4. #3
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    10,409
    Post Thanks / Like
    Rip.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  5. #4
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    24,019
    Post Thanks / Like
    Rip

  6. #5
    Custom User Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,351
    Post Thanks / Like
    Rest in peace.

  7. #6
    Lower than a snakes balls Duffman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    973
    Post Thanks / Like
    RIP highlights dangers of heat as much as cold.
    "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

    "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

  8. #7
    BQMS Meatbomb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Over the rainbow 24/7/365
    Posts
    541
    Post Thanks / Like
    Rip

  9. #8
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    14,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    I don't actually like ths post, but I appreciate you sharing this sad loss, thanks and sympathies.

  10. Thanks SwiftandSure thanked for this post
    Likes RoyalGreenJacket liked this post
  11. #9
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    13,921
    Post Thanks / Like
    Rest In Peace,

    Thanks for sharing

  12. #10
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    4,568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Rip.

  13. #11
    Burt, the Netherlands
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Posts
    112
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sad news, may they rest in peace

  14. #12
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    4,568
    Post Thanks / Like
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23311651

    Apparently they were TA. Makes it seem sadder, somehow, as they probably expected to be back at the day-job today...

    Dead soldiers in Powys served with Territorial Army

    15 July 2013 Last updated at 07:31
    Cemlyn Davies reports from the Brecon Beacons

    Investigations are continuing into the deaths of two soldiers on a training exercise in the Brecon Beacons, Powys.

    They were serving with the Territorial Army, the BBC understands.

    A third soldier is in a serious condition after Saturday's incident, which is thought to have been linked to the hot weather.

    The Ministry of Defence (MoD) refused to comment on reports they were taking part in an SAS selection process.

    The Brecon Beacons is home to the Infantry Battle School and makes up one of Britain's largest military training areas.

    The MoD has released little information about the two soldiers who died, but BBC News understands they were with the TA.

    An investigation is focussing on the weather conditions and the nature of the exercise.

    The deaths occurred on the hottest day of the year so far in Wales, with temperatures reaching 30C (86F) in Powys.

    It is understood live ammunition was not involved.

    The MoD said it was working with Dyfed Powys Police.

    A statement added: "The two servicemen's next of kin have been informed. More information will be released in due course but it would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage."

    Two local people, one a former serviceman, explain how the military like to use the Brecon Beacons for training exercises

    The Brecon Beacons national park is used for military training because of its relative remoteness.

    'Meltingly hot'
    The infantry regiments of the British Army train at Sennybridge in the area and there is an Army base in Brecon.

    Kirsty Williams, leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats and AM for Brecon and Radnorshire, said it was a "meltingly hot" day in the area on Saturday.

    She added: "It's very very said to think that people that were serving with our armed forces have lost their lives in this way".

    Ms Williams said it was a beautiful area which could also be very "treacherous" and the military trained there "for a reason".

    She said she hoped "any lessons that can be learned from this tragedy will be learned".

    About 30 members of the four south Wales mountain rescue teams (MRTs) were called out to help in the emergency on Saturday near Pen y Fan.

    'Incredibly sad'
    Mark Moran, from Central Beacons MRT, said: "We were working alongside military personnel who remained extremely calm and professional during this tragic incident.

    "Our thoughts are now with the families of those involved."

    Mayor of Brecon and Powys county councillor Matthew Dorrance said: "It's incredibly sad for the friends and family of the people who have lost their lives and thoughts are with the person who is injured.

    "In one way we've been blessed with the weather but for people working in this heat, they're tough conditions."

    Mr Dorrance said local people regularly saw troops training in the area and were "proud of our links with the military".
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  15. #13
    C/S koppiteal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    dublin
    Posts
    439
    Post Thanks / Like
    Rip

  16. #14
    CQMS spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,930
    Post Thanks / Like
    Well as speculated yesterday in the media they were undergoing selection for the Special Forces (Reserve).

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23311651

    May God help their families at this time.
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

  17. #15
    Lt Colonel
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,077
    Post Thanks / Like
    the MOD has named one of the dead soldiers as L/Cpl Craig Roberts of 3rd Bn Royal Anglian Regiment (v). he had previously served in Afghanistan and was undertaking selection with 21SAS(v).

    he was 24 yers old and a school teacher in London.

    RIP, and the deepest condolences to his family.

  18. Thanks SwiftandSure thanked for this post
    Likes rod and serpent liked this post
  19. #16
    In Arduis Fidelis rod and serpent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    In a semi permissable environment.
    Posts
    3,237
    Post Thanks / Like
    Rest In Peace Steelback.

  20. #17
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    574
    Post Thanks / Like
    While it's always sad to hear of troops who have died in combat, there's something particularly bad about hearing of troops dying in a training environment.

    On here and other places, you hear talk of a "Warrior ethos" and what not... Well, both those men possessed a warrior spirit. They were willing to put it all on the line, to follow their dreams.

    RIP Warriors.

  21. Thanks SwiftandSure thanked for this post
    Likes spider, RoyalGreenJacket liked this post
  22. #18
    Major General
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    A very fit participant in a 50k run from Athy to graignomonna collapsed due to heatstoke last sat and got a liver transplant on Weds and not out of the woods by any means yet,it seems any form of extreme exertion presently is not just a danger on selection courses.

  23. #19
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    574
    Post Thanks / Like
    Soldier deaths: Third 'SAS' training reservist dies

    A third Army reservist has died after taking part in an SAS selection training exercise in the Brecon Beacons earlier this month.

    Edward Maher, 31, and Craig Roberts, 24, died after temperatures reached 29.5C during the training regime on 13 July.

    The Ministry of Defence (MoD) said on Tuesday a third reservist has died.

    Defence Secretary Philip Hammond has announced a full inquiry into what happened.

    In a statement on Tuesday, the MoD said: "It is with great sadness that we can confirm that a third Army reserve soldier injured during a training exercise in the Brecon Beacons has died of his injuries.

    "The family have asked for a period of grace before he is named and request that this is respected by the media."

    The soldiers had taken part in a four-week trial for the Territorial Army's SAS reservists ending in a 40-mile (64km) hike over the Brecon Beacons in Powys.

    An inquest in Brecon, which opened and adjourned last week, heard the cause of Mr Roberts' and Mr Maher's deaths remains "unascertained".

    Powys coroner Louise Hunt warned that the MoD could face investigation under the Human Rights Act.

    She said "right to life" will play an important part in the inquest.

    "The state has a duty to protect an individual's life," she said.

    "The importance of looking into the wider circumstances of these deaths is that Article Two of the Human Rights Act will come into play."

    Before adjourning proceedings, she said a full inquest would examine all the circumstances leading up to the deaths, and any failings.

    Aptitude training

    L/Cpl Roberts, 24, of Penrhyn Bay, Conwy, had served with the Territorial Army for around five years and is understood to have served in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    The soldiers were among six men rescued during the hike.

    Witnesses on the day described coming across two soldiers "clearly in distress" who pleaded with them for drinking water.

    The pair were understood to be taking part in the aptitude training element of the course to become SAS reservists.

    The Brecon Beacons is home to the Infantry Battle School and makes up one of Britain's largest military training areas.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23511938
    RIP Warrior.

  24. Thanks TangoSierra, rod and serpent, SwiftandSure thanked for this post
    Likes spider, rod and serpent liked this post
  25. #20
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Town of Deva, Transylvania Romania
    Posts
    2,200
    Post Thanks / Like
    May they + Rest In Peace +

    Sympathy & Condolences to their Family, friends & Comrades.

  26. #21
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    4,568
    Post Thanks / Like
    RIP. Very sad news

  27. #22
    Closed Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    The Valley of the Shadow of Death
    Posts
    3,160
    Post Thanks / Like
    RIP. Tragic news.

  28. #23
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    4,568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Well, the Coroner was not impressed.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-33512416

    . SAS selection deaths: Coroner delivers neglect conclusion

    Three reservists who died on an SAS selection march would have survived if the hike had been stopped when other soldiers fell ill, a coroner has said.

    Coroner Louise Hunt ruled L/Cpl Edward Maher, L/Cpl Craig Roberts and Cpl James Dunsby died as a result of neglect on the 16-mile march.

    All three suffered the effects of hyperthermia. The Brecon Beacons march was held on one of 2013's hottest days.

    Ms Hunt said a failure of basic medical care contributed to their deaths.

    The inquest in Solihull, West Midlands, had heard that had organisers strictly followed the Ministry of Defence's (MoD) code of practice, the march would have been cancelled after two men - not among those who died - were withdrawn from the exercise shortly after midday due to heat sickness.

    Controversially, Army personnel had told the coroner they were not aware of the contents of the MoD guidelines and had been told not to bother reading them.

    The Army said it accepted it did not carefully manage the risks involved in the exercise.

    All three men were on course to complete the march within the allocated time but were found in three separate locations at different times.

    The hearing had heard Cpl Dunsby, 31, of Bath, would have been suffering signs of heat illness when he passed the penultimate check point but staff missed it.

    He was found collapsed near the finish, and died in hospital two weeks later.

    Delivering her conclusion on Tuesday, the coroner said: "Those running this march were fundamentally under-briefed. They did not fully understand the risk of heat illness, and the emergency plan was inadequate.

    "I consider the briefing to those running the march to be inadequate as it failed to include weather conditions, the risk of heat injury and the reporting of reasons for medical withdrawals should they occur.

    "It also failed to include plans to evacuate any casualties," she said.

    Ms Hunt said the medical plan for the July 2013 march had not been good enough, water supplies had been insufficient and the risk assessment had not identified the correct hospital for treatment.

    A lack of water contributed to 31-year-old L/Cpl Maher's death, the hearing was told.

    There should have been closer liaison with emergency services to avoid multiple 999 calls and signal problems meant calls were cut off, leading to delays in getting to casualties, Ms Hunt said.

    The coroner said there was a lack of understanding by the march's directing staff of soldiers withdrawing with heat illness and some staff were unaware some were ill.

    She said that had the MoD's own guidance on heat illness been followed, the march would have been called off by 12:40 BST - more than four hours before the first victim, Cpl Roberts, 24, was found convulsing on the mountain.

    GPS trackers used to monitor candidates were not fit for purpose - something the MoD had known since 2009, the hearing was told.

    "No measures were put in place in this march to mitigate that risk. This is concerning because it appears lessons have not been learned," Ms Hunt said.

    She added there was a lack of understanding of an "individual's will to succeed" and there was "complacent" attitude to risk.

    The failure to recognise the three men had stopped moving via the GPS tracker was a gross failure, which amounted to neglect, she said.

    "In the case of each soldier there was a failure to provide basic medical care which contributed to their deaths."

    The test was the second time L/Cpl Roberts, from Penrhyn Bay, Conwy, and L/Cpl Maher, of Winchester, had attempted SAS selection.

    In a statement after the hearing, the family of L/Cpl Maher paid tribute to the "humanity and skill" of the police and SAS family liaison officers who supported them through the "most difficult two years of our lives".

    They said while they supported the work of the special forces to produce "magnificent soldiers", training methods "must be fit for purpose" with differences between training and operational activities.

    "Our son was not on active service in July 2013; he was undergoing selection training on a Welsh hillside, and it is unacceptable that he paid for that training with his life," the statement added.

    Cpl Dunsby's widow, Bryher Dunsby, said at times during the inquest the MoD had displayed "no responsibility, no accountability and no humility" in acknowledging the "vast catalogue of errors which were so clearly made".

    "No part of the armed forces can be beyond scrutiny or above the law but unless and until those at the top acknowledge and accept responsibility for the failing of their organisations cultures will not change and mistakes will be repeated," she added.

    Brigadier John Donnelly, the Army's director of personal services, apologised for the deaths of "three fine soldiers" and said the Army would make sure everything possible was done to prevent it happening again.

    "It is necessary to train our soldiers to the highest standards to meet the security challenges that we face both in this country and overseas. To do this requires our individuals to push themselves and take some risk," he said.

    "However, we must ensure that those risks are carefully managed. In this case, we did not do this and accept responsibility."

    After the hearing, Health and Safety Executive said its investigation into the circumstances surrounding the reservists' deaths was continuing.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  29. #24
    Closed Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    868
    Post Thanks / Like
    No one wants those GPS trackers to work anyway.

  30. #25
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    4,568
    Post Thanks / Like
    It sounds like quite a toll. I wonder is it avoidable:

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...ntain-19707131

    Twenty soldiers have died in Welsh mountain SAS selection training sessions

    Figures going back to 1984 reveal almost one soldier has died every two years during fitness and endurance tests in the Brecon Beacons

    As many as 20 soldiers have died during SAS selection in the Brecon Beacons, defence chiefs have admitted.

    According to figures, almost one soldier has died every two years during SAS tests in the Welsh mountain range since 1984.

    Twice a year regular military personnel attempt to pass Special Forces selection in the Brecon Beacons.

    Now, calls are being made for a memorial in honour of those who have lost their lives, The Mirror reports.

    The proposal for a permanent monument has been put forward by a friend of one man who died during the selection process.

    The unnamed soldier, who was a friend of a colleague who died while taking part in training has asked the Ministry of Defence how many have died.

    In a written letter to the MoD he said: "I’ve had some discussions with local councillors and politicians about a memorial for service people that lost their life in the Brecon Beacons.

    "I lost a close friend and colleague there while he was training for special force selection some years ago and it is a topic close to my heart."

    Among those who died were Cpl James Dunsby, 31, L/Cpl Edward Maher, 31, and L/Cpl Craig Roberts, 24 , who died near Pen y Fan mountain in the Brecon Beacons in 2013.

    Roberts and Maher died from heatstroke during a 16 mile dash and Dunsby died from organ failure during extremely hot conditions.

    Cpl Joshua Hoole, 26 died in 2016 during another fitness test, triggering calls for an enquiry.

    The training takes place twice a year, with an average of 100 personnel from units all over the armed forces facing a four week long intense test, the most notorious being a 16-mile march carrying a 45 lb back pack and rifle over Pen y Fan.

    The majority of military deaths in the Brecon Beacons are thought to have taken place during SAS selection or training.

    A Ministry of Defence spokesperson said: "Our deepest sympathies remain with the families and friends of those who have tragically lost their lives.

    "The health and safety of our personnel is a priority and we continually review training environments and methods to ensure they are as safe as possible."
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  31. Thanks DeV thanked for this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •