What the ASTI want - Scrap the Army ( sic)

[Jack Booted Man]

Saw this in yesterday's Sindo letters page ...... A first , one group of public servants ( the educators) calling for the Army ( he doesn't get the whole DF thing) to be scrapped so they can be paid 30m euro to supervise school yards ( isn't that a teachers job anyway ?)

I really hope the lads and lassies in the Golan, Mali , the Leb, at sea or doing air ambos etc didn't see this.... I really wonder .....

What does the broader Asti movement want? The first is a real concrete promise of not making teachers correct their own students in the new JC. Not a working group (under HR) from the man who promised (along with others) to burn the bondholders and protect child benefit. I know Colm has concern about the JC too. He wants to trust Ruairi Quinn to hear teachers' concerns. Most teachers don't trust Quinn. If continuous assessment comes in then some teachers will find a second job helping students they don't teach pass their projects. There will be plenty of work for grind teachers and parents in writing student projects. If the State couldn't police its own banks/industrial schools/creches -- what hope school projects?

The JC can be dealt with in a cost-neutral manner but supervision and substitution can't -- or can they?

While I find it hard to figure out why we need to spend €850m a year on the army (22 countries have abolished their army -- who exactly are we defending ourselves from?) and yet can't fork out €30m a year for supervising our children, I will take it that Ruairi Quinn fears Sandymount might be invaded by angry teachers. But in asking for it, did he have to increase the periods of availability from three to five? Why exactly? Ask any principal (Colm included) if that was necessary given that the 30 per cent who don't do supervision will now be frog-marched into it or be paying for someone else to carry the burden. Staying at the present three periods (cost neutral) and allowing all to opt out but pay the levy would also be acceptable to the majority, in my opinion.

That's some of what teachers want. Both requests would cost exactly nothing!

Barry Hazel, Asti CEC,

Bray, Co Wicklow



PS apologies can't do the quote bit properly.

[Rhodes]

Saw this in yesterday's Sindo letters page ...... A first , one group of public servants ( the educators) calling for the Army ( he doesn't get the whole DF thing) to be scrapped so they can be paid 30m euro to supervise school yards ( isn't that a teachers job anyway ?)

I really hope the lads and lassies in the Golan, Mali , the Leb, at sea or doing air ambos etc didn't see this.... I really wonder .....

What does the broader Asti movement want? The first is a real concrete promise of not making teachers correct their own students in the new JC. Not a working group (under HR) from the man who promised (along with others) to burn the bondholders and protect child benefit. I know Colm has concern about the JC too. He wants to trust Ruairi Quinn to hear teachers' concerns. Most teachers don't trust Quinn. If continuous assessment comes in then some teachers will find a second job helping students they don't teach pass their projects. There will be plenty of work for grind teachers and parents in writing student projects. If the State couldn't police its own banks/industrial schools/creches -- what hope school projects?

The JC can be dealt with in a cost-neutral manner but supervision and substitution can't -- or can they?

While I find it hard to figure out why we need to spend €850m a year on the army (22 countries have abolished their army -- who exactly are we defending ourselves from?) and yet can't fork out €30m a year for supervising our children, I will take it that Ruairi Quinn fears Sandymount might be invaded by angry teachers. But in asking for it, did he have to increase the periods of availability from three to five? Why exactly? Ask any principal (Colm included) if that was necessary given that the 30 per cent who don't do supervision will now be frog-marched into it or be paying for someone else to carry the burden. Staying at the present three periods (cost neutral) and allowing all to opt out but pay the levy would also be acceptable to the majority, in my opinion.

That's some of what teachers want. Both requests would cost exactly nothing!

Barry Hazel, Asti CEC,

Bray, Co Wicklow



PS apologies can't do the quote bit properly.

Maybe Mr Hazel should volunteer himself to make safe the unstable explosive chemicals that are constantly being discovered in secondary schools around the country considering he wants the Army abolished.

[DeV]

Why not give them the money and make the teachers work the full month of July?!


In fairness, I agree with the point on CA to a point but they do it at 3rd level?

[Truck Driver]

Maybe Mr Hazel should volunteer himself to make safe the unstable explosive chemicals that are constantly being discovered in secondary schools around the country considering he wants the Army abolished.

Why not give them the money and make the teachers work the full month of July?!


In fairness, I agree with the point on CA to a point but they do it at 3rd level?

Makes me think of the US when I was on work assignment there last year
The elementary (primary) school - or at least I thought they were primary school kids anyway - only get something like 7 weeks summer vacation
Meaning the teachers get a shorter break in the summer than their Irish counterparts
Given this guy represents the ASTI, they get an extra 1 month vacation AND can top up their wages by doing State exam supervision in June to boot...
Good of the guy, in the interest of balance, to list the 22 countries in question
Wonder what his colleagues who are Reservists think of this one.... ?

[morpheus]

Ok so im lazy and ripped this from wikepaedia but hopefully someone will send this to that clown.

A quick google of "Barry Hazel, Asti CEC" will find him and his email address is posted on the ASTI facebook page in one of his comments.

Yes, Ireland has a lot in common with the following countries..... not....

	Countries with absolutely no military forces
*Andorra	Andorra has no standing army but signed treaties with Spain and France for its protection. Its small volunteer*army*is purely ceremonial in function. The paramilitary*GIPA*(trained in counter-terrorism and hostage management) is part of the*national police.
*Costa Rica	The constitution has forbidden a standing military since 1949. It does have a public security force, whose role includes law enforcement and internal security. For this reason Costa Rica is the headquarters for the*Inter-American Court of Human Rights*and also the*United Nations'*University for Peace.
*Grenada	Has not had a*standing army*since 1983 because of an*American-led invasion. The*Royal Grenada Police Force*maintains a paramilitary special service unit for internal security purposes. Defense is the responsibility of the*Regional Security System.
*Kiribati	Under the Constitution the*only forces permitted*are the*police, which includes a*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance is equipped with small arms, and maintains one*Pacific class patrol boat, the*Teanoai. Defense assistance is provided by*Australia*and*New Zealand*under an informal agreement between the three countries.
*Liechtenstein	Abolished*its army*in 1868 because it was deemed too costly. An army is only permitted in times of war, but that situation has never occurred. However, Liechtenstein maintains a*police force*and a*SWAT*team, equipped with small arms to carry out internal security duties.
*Marshall Islands	Since the country's foundation the*only forces permitted*are the*police, which includes a*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance Unit is equipped with small arms, and maintains one*Pacific class patrol boat, the*Lomor. Under the*Compact of Free Association, defense is the responsibility of the*United States.
*Federated States of Micronesia	Since the country's foundation*no military*has been formed. The only forces permitted are the*police, which maintain a*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance is equipped with small arms, and maintains one*Pacific class patrol boat, the*Independence. Defense is the responsibility of the*United States*under the*Compact of Free Association.
*Nauru	Australia*is responsible for Nauru's defense under an informal agreement between the two countries. However, there is a relatively large armed*police force, and an auxiliary police force for internal security.
*Palau	Since the country's foundation the*only forces permitted*are the*police, which includes a 30-man*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance is equipped with small arms, and maintains one*Pacific class patrol boat, the*President H.I. Remeliik. Defense assistance is provided by the*United States*under the*Compact of Free Association.
*Saint Lucia	The*Royal Saint Lucia Police*maintain two small paramilitary forces consisting of 116 men and women, the*Special Service Unit, and the*Coast Guard, both units are responsible for internal security. Defense is the responsibility of*Regional Security System.
*Saint Vincent and the Grenadines	The*Royal Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Police Force*maintain two small paramilitary forces consisting of 94 men and women, called the*Special Service Unit, and the*Coast Guard, both units are responsible for internal security purposes. All Coastguard Commanders with the exception of Lieutenant Commander David Robin have been officers from the*Royal Navy. Defense is the responsibility of*Regional Security System.
*Samoa	Since the country's foundation*no military*has been formed, however, there is a small*police force, and a*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance Unit is equipped with small arms, and maintains one*Pacific class patrol boat, the*Nafanua. In accordance to a 1962 Treaty of Friendship,New Zealand*is responsible for defense.
*Solomon Islands	Maintained a*paramilitary force*until a heavy ethnic conflict, in which*Australia, New Zealand and other Pacific countries*intervened to restore law and order. Since then no military has been maintained, however, there is a relatively large*police force, and a*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance Unit is equipped with small arms, and maintains two*Pacific class patrol boats, the*Auki*and the*Lata. Defense and policing assistance is the responsibility of the*RAMSI.
*Tuvalu	Since the country's foundation*no military*has been formed, however, there is a small*police force, and a*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance Unit is equipped with small arms, and maintains one*Pacific class patrol boat, the*Te Mataili.
**Vatican City	Maintains a*Gendarmerie Corps*for internal policing. The*Swiss Guard*is a unit belonging to the*Holy See, not the Vatican City State. There is no defense treaty with*Italy, as it would violate the Vatican's neutrality, but informally the*Italian military*protects Vatican City. The*Palatine Guard*and*Noble Guard*were abolished in 1970.
	Countries with no standing army, but having limited military forces
*Haiti	The*Haitian military*was disbanded in June 1995, but rebels have demanded its re-establishment. The 9,000-strong*Haitian National Police*maintains some paramilitary units and a*Coast Guard; these units are considered to be larger than what is required, considering the much smaller militaries of some neighboring countries. In April 2012, Haitian President*Michel Martelly*demanded the re-establishment of the Army, which he deems necessary for the stability of Haiti.
*Iceland	Has not had a*standing army*since 1869, but is an active member of*NATO. There was a defense agreement with the*United States, which maintained anIceland Defense Force*and a military base in the country from 1951 to 2006. However, the US announced it would continue to provide for Iceland's defense, but without permanently basing forces in the country;*Naval Air Station Keflavik*closed in late 2006 after 55 years. Even though Iceland does not have a standing army, it still maintains a*military expeditionary peacekeeping force, an*air defense system, an extensive*militarised coast guard, a*police service, and a*tactical police force. There are also agreements about military and other security operations with*Norway,*Denmark, and other NATO countries.
*Mauritius	Mauritius has not had a standing army since 1968. All military, police, and security functions are carried out by 10,000 active duty personnel under the command of the*Commissioner of Police. The 8,000 member*National Police Force*is responsible for domestic law enforcement. There is also a 1,500 member*Special Mobile Force, and a 500 member*National Coast Guard, which are both considered paramilitary units. Both units are equipped with small arms.
*Monaco	Renounced its general military investment in the 17th century because the advancement in artillery technology had rendered it defenseless, but still self identifies as having limited military forces. Although defense is the responsibility of*France, two*small military units*are maintained; one primarily protects the*Prince, and judiciary, while the other is responsible for civil defense, and fire fighting. Both units are well trained and equipped with small arms. In addition to the military, an armed national*police force*is maintained for internal security purposes.
*Panama	Abolished its army*in 1990, which was confirmed by a unanimous parliamentary vote for constitutional change in 1994. The*Panamanian Public Forces, includes the National Police, National Borders Service, National Aeronaval Service, and Institutional Protection Service, which have some warfare capabilities.
*Vanuatu	The*Vanuatu Police Force*maintain a paramilitary force, called the*Vanuatu Mobile Force*for internal security purposes. The Vanuatu Mobile Force is manned by almost 300 men and women, who are well equipped with small arms.

[Flamingo]

Go for the Iceland option - no armed forces - but join NATO and allow the US to station troops and whatever bases they want.

And watch all the crusties have a heart attack...

[Tyler Durden]

This is the kind of idiocy the lickspittles at the Sunday Indo will happily publish.

[DeV]

It also means they get better return on investment (utilisation) from the capital expenditure on the buildings. It would cost more in running costs (light, heat etc) but the major expense (wages) is being paid anyway. Say they opened for even 2 weeks in July and do summer school or short courses type stuff. Added benefit - help decrease some anti-social behaviour.

If done for primary schools as well (and increase the length of the school day) it could have the added benefit of reducing parents child care costs.

[DeV]

Ok so im lazy and ripped this from wikepaedia but hopefully someone will send this to that clown.

A quick google of "Barry Hazel, Asti CEC" will find him and his email address is posted on the ASTI facebook page in one of his comments.

Yes, Ireland has a lot in common with the following countries..... not....

	Countries with absolutely no military forces
*Andorra	Andorra has no standing army but signed treaties with Spain and France for its protection. Its small volunteer*army*is purely ceremonial in function. The paramilitary*GIPA*(trained in counter-terrorism and hostage management) is part of the*national police.
*Costa Rica	The constitution has forbidden a standing military since 1949. It does have a public security force, whose role includes law enforcement and internal security. For this reason Costa Rica is the headquarters for the*Inter-American Court of Human Rights*and also the*United Nations'*University for Peace.
*Grenada	Has not had a*standing army*since 1983 because of an*American-led invasion. The*Royal Grenada Police Force*maintains a paramilitary special service unit for internal security purposes. Defense is the responsibility of the*Regional Security System.
*Kiribati	Under the Constitution the*only forces permitted*are the*police, which includes a*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance is equipped with small arms, and maintains one*Pacific class patrol boat, the*Teanoai. Defense assistance is provided by*Australia*and*New Zealand*under an informal agreement between the three countries.
*Liechtenstein	Abolished*its army*in 1868 because it was deemed too costly. An army is only permitted in times of war, but that situation has never occurred. However, Liechtenstein maintains a*police force*and a*SWAT*team, equipped with small arms to carry out internal security duties.
*Marshall Islands	Since the country's foundation the*only forces permitted*are the*police, which includes a*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance Unit is equipped with small arms, and maintains one*Pacific class patrol boat, the*Lomor. Under the*Compact of Free Association, defense is the responsibility of the*United States.
*Federated States of Micronesia	Since the country's foundation*no military*has been formed. The only forces permitted are the*police, which maintain a*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance is equipped with small arms, and maintains one*Pacific class patrol boat, the*Independence. Defense is the responsibility of the*United States*under the*Compact of Free Association.
*Nauru	Australia*is responsible for Nauru's defense under an informal agreement between the two countries. However, there is a relatively large armed*police force, and an auxiliary police force for internal security.
*Palau	Since the country's foundation the*only forces permitted*are the*police, which includes a 30-man*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance is equipped with small arms, and maintains one*Pacific class patrol boat, the*President H.I. Remeliik. Defense assistance is provided by the*United States*under the*Compact of Free Association.
*Saint Lucia	The*Royal Saint Lucia Police*maintain two small paramilitary forces consisting of 116 men and women, the*Special Service Unit, and the*Coast Guard, both units are responsible for internal security. Defense is the responsibility of*Regional Security System.
*Saint Vincent and the Grenadines	The*Royal Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Police Force*maintain two small paramilitary forces consisting of 94 men and women, called the*Special Service Unit, and the*Coast Guard, both units are responsible for internal security purposes. All Coastguard Commanders with the exception of Lieutenant Commander David Robin have been officers from the*Royal Navy. Defense is the responsibility of*Regional Security System.
*Samoa	Since the country's foundation*no military*has been formed, however, there is a small*police force, and a*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance Unit is equipped with small arms, and maintains one*Pacific class patrol boat, the*Nafanua. In accordance to a 1962 Treaty of Friendship,New Zealand*is responsible for defense.
*Solomon Islands	Maintained a*paramilitary force*until a heavy ethnic conflict, in which*Australia, New Zealand and other Pacific countries*intervened to restore law and order. Since then no military has been maintained, however, there is a relatively large*police force, and a*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance Unit is equipped with small arms, and maintains two*Pacific class patrol boats, the*Auki*and the*Lata. Defense and policing assistance is the responsibility of the*RAMSI.
*Tuvalu	Since the country's foundation*no military*has been formed, however, there is a small*police force, and a*Maritime Surveillance Unit*for internal security. The Maritime Surveillance Unit is equipped with small arms, and maintains one*Pacific class patrol boat, the*Te Mataili.
**Vatican City	Maintains a*Gendarmerie Corps*for internal policing. The*Swiss Guard*is a unit belonging to the*Holy See, not the Vatican City State. There is no defense treaty with*Italy, as it would violate the Vatican's neutrality, but informally the*Italian military*protects Vatican City. The*Palatine Guard*and*Noble Guard*were abolished in 1970.
	Countries with no standing army, but having limited military forces
*Haiti	The*Haitian military*was disbanded in June 1995, but rebels have demanded its re-establishment. The 9,000-strong*Haitian National Police*maintains some paramilitary units and a*Coast Guard; these units are considered to be larger than what is required, considering the much smaller militaries of some neighboring countries. In April 2012, Haitian President*Michel Martelly*demanded the re-establishment of the Army, which he deems necessary for the stability of Haiti.
*Iceland	Has not had a*standing army*since 1869, but is an active member of*NATO. There was a defense agreement with the*United States, which maintained anIceland Defense Force*and a military base in the country from 1951 to 2006. However, the US announced it would continue to provide for Iceland's defense, but without permanently basing forces in the country;*Naval Air Station Keflavik*closed in late 2006 after 55 years. Even though Iceland does not have a standing army, it still maintains a*military expeditionary peacekeeping force, an*air defense system, an extensive*militarised coast guard, a*police service, and a*tactical police force. There are also agreements about military and other security operations with*Norway,*Denmark, and other NATO countries.
*Mauritius	Mauritius has not had a standing army since 1968. All military, police, and security functions are carried out by 10,000 active duty personnel under the command of the*Commissioner of Police. The 8,000 member*National Police Force*is responsible for domestic law enforcement. There is also a 1,500 member*Special Mobile Force, and a 500 member*National Coast Guard, which are both considered paramilitary units. Both units are equipped with small arms.
*Monaco	Renounced its general military investment in the 17th century because the advancement in artillery technology had rendered it defenseless, but still self identifies as having limited military forces. Although defense is the responsibility of*France, two*small military units*are maintained; one primarily protects the*Prince, and judiciary, while the other is responsible for civil defense, and fire fighting. Both units are well trained and equipped with small arms. In addition to the military, an armed national*police force*is maintained for internal security purposes.
*Panama	Abolished its army*in 1990, which was confirmed by a unanimous parliamentary vote for constitutional change in 1994. The*Panamanian Public Forces, includes the National Police, National Borders Service, National Aeronaval Service, and Institutional Protection Service, which have some warfare capabilities.
*Vanuatu	The*Vanuatu Police Force*maintain a paramilitary force, called the*Vanuatu Mobile Force*for internal security purposes. The Vanuatu Mobile Force is manned by almost 300 men and women, who are well equipped with small arms.

I wonder how they population sizes compare with Ireland.

[Jetjock]

How about this? Enforce state exam oversight and marking as routine teaching work with no extra pay in June and make adult literacy and English language courses a requirement during the months of July and August for which they are already paid. They already have more paid time off the rest of the year than most of us. Targeting another branch of state employees for cuts to line your own pockets just takes the biscuit, plentiful as they are in cosy staff rooms around the country.

[morpheus]

In fairness, its one misguided idiot....

then again, they said the same thing about hitler

[northie]

One misguided idiot on their national executive committee

[Battletour]

Perhaps they should be advised of this?

[hedgehog]

Every plan should always be looked at from the angle of those who are on the opposite side

Let's look at it from the other side- teachers are just as important if not more important than the DF.

Do we really need a Defence Forces of that size-surely a navy and air "force " is all that's required- the savings would go some way towards beefing up the education sector.

[The real Jack]

Every plan should always be looked at from the angle of those who are on the opposite side

Let's look at it from the other side- teachers are just as important if not more important than the DF.

Do we really need a Defence Forces of that size-surely a navy and air "force " is all that's required- the savings would go some way towards beefing up the education sector.

The education "sector" need to be reduced, look at the amount of waste of time ITs that have sprung up all over the country that offer valueless degrees, many courses are replicated in the same city/town in different educational establishments employing their own admin staff and maintaining the same buildings and equipment. FFS most people after nearly 12 years of education cannot string a meaningful sentence together in Irish. Whenever you hear a politican compliment our education system remember Irish. The ASTI seem to think they deserve extra money for doing a couple of hours extra work when the get 2-3 months more holidays than most people.