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  1. #26
    Major General
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    Whats likely replacement if not the Steyr for 6oom+ jobs?

  2. #27
    the last mohican slapper's Avatar
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    oh god ya give me an fn any day over the styre let me lay down accurate fire from further back i'd love to buy one and licence it as a private one
    who threw the smoke in the van

  3. #28
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Did you SQ have the records of rounds fired prior to them being issued to your unit (they could have been issued to 5 units before that)?

    They were taken on charge brand new , never fired.

    as for the Brens, they came with the information and it was continued.

    What has security duties got to do with anythings you could name the pole in the DF who have intentionally( legally) fired a round while carrying out security duties in the past 25 years!

    To have unused weapons in storage wouldn't be unusal, In 1985 in Haulbowline there was a rack of No 4 lee Enfields, unused in stores.

    The FNs in the magazine of Eithne only saw the light of day when they were been put in and taken out and probably for ARPs and were almost brand new on issue.The only serious barrel wear on them was from cleaning!

    On my gunnery course we took a Oerlikon from Stores still in the manufacturers packing grease never even fully assembled.

    You under estimate the army, remember thse rfles were all bought and paid for at some point, there is record of what batch came from where and when and what unit was issued them and when they were struck off charge.

    I saw weapons been written off as unsafe on the range as the bore was worn out, but again a lot of Reserve units were economic with their FNs, especially those with higher numbers which were newer. Take a corps unit who probably fired one arp per year, over the 11 years the FN was in service with the FCA/RDF...peanuts in terms of rounds.
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 13th January 2014 at 16:43.
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  4. #29
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    We had the FN in 86/87 in our stores when I joined. If I recall correctly we got rid in 2002 with them being finally withdrawn in 2003
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  5. #30
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    It would not be a difficult task to replace barrels on the FN...I for one lament the move away from the 7.62...much more capable round and very few as trouble free as the FN. DSA continues to make new rifles.

  6. #31
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    On the contrary,The Plastic butt ones only went on issue to the Reserve in 1995!, withdrawn five years later, when the weapons were being returned after being withdrawn from use they were graded based on the condition. There were never more than a few hundred of the dutch ones, we had 10. numbers were sequential and they were only used for competition shooting..
    I fired a brand new FN wiht the plastic butt in the All Army (FCA) in 1992.

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  8. #32
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Just because things happened in 1 unit doesn't mean it happened throughout the DF.

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  10. #33
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    But it does mean that they were on issue before 1995. You know the exception tht disproves the rule.

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  12. #34
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    We had the FN in 86/87 in our stores when I joined. If I recall correctly we got rid in 2002 with them being finally withdrawn in 2003
    We did the conversion to the Styer in 1999, First issued Steyrs in 2000, all FNs were gone from stores by 2002.

    Steyr was issued in 1989 to PDF, did you have FNs before the .303 was retired?

    Just because things happened in 1 unit doesn't mean it happened throughout the DF
    But it dosen't mean it didn't happen.

    But it does mean that they were on issue before 1995.
    Probably in some units, but didn't happen in my unit until 1995.But as I said I specifically know when they arrived and I know when I first fired one and I didn't particularly like them, no more than I did firing the bog standard, one as I always found the butt to be too long.

    The most unusual ones I came across were those with the 'extra butt plate' that hinged upwards. Got to fire AP ammo from one of these at a navigation hazard be fore the ante was upped to 20mm.
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 14th January 2014 at 18:45.
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  13. #35
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    http://www.prc68.com/I/FNFAL.shtml

    TD note the difference in the carrying handle and the body locking lever, plus they were over all black with a rubber butt plate.
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  15. #36
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    Quote [Steyr was issued in 1988 to PDF] Quote

    1989 as far as I remember. They were selected in 1987 and the paperwork, purchasing etc. happened in 1988. The first UNIFIL Bn to be issued with them was in Oct 89.

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  17. #37
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    1989 as far as I remember. They were selected in 1987 and the paperwork, purchasing etc. happened in 1988. The first UNIFIL Bn to be issued with them was in Oct 89.
    You are indeed correct .
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  19. #38
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    They were taken on charge brand new , never fired.

    as for the Brens, they came with the information and it was continued.

    What has security duties got to do with anythings you could name the pole in the DF who have intentionally( legally) fired a round while carrying out security duties in the past 25 years!

    To have unused weapons in storage wouldn't be unusal, In 1985 in Haulbowline there was a rack of No 4 lee Enfields, unused in stores.

    The FNs in the magazine of Eithne only saw the light of day when they were been put in and taken out and probably for ARPs and were almost brand new on issue.The only serious barrel wear on them was from cleaning!

    On my gunnery course we took a Oerlikon from Stores still in the manufacturers packing grease never even fully assembled.

    You under estimate the army, remember thse rfles were all bought and paid for at some point, there is record of what batch came from where and when and what unit was issued them and when they were struck off charge.

    I saw weapons been written off as unsafe on the range as the bore was worn out, but again a lot of Reserve units were economic with their FNs, especially those with higher numbers which were newer. Take a corps unit who probably fired one arp per year, over the 11 years the FN was in service with the FCA/RDF...peanuts in terms of rounds.
    There were rounds fired on security & ATCP duties maybe on hundreds through 1 barrel but it is more paper.

    You say the paperwork came with the Brens, this paperwork wasn't a requirement so how do you know it is accurate.

    Some FNs and Brens would have been fired on ops overseas for example.

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  21. #39
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    We did the conversion to the Styer in 1999, First issued Steyrs in 2000, all FNs were gone from stores by 2001.
    And yet we did conversion in 2000 and the unit didn't get Steyrs until 2002 at least.



    But it dosen't mean it didn't happen.
    .
    I didn't say that

  22. #40
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    We did the conversion to the Styer in 1999, First issued Steyrs in 2000, all FNs were gone from stores by 2001.

    Steyr was issued in 1989 to PDF, did you have FNs before the .303 was retired?
    Yes, we had FNs before the 303 was retired . Did my TTBs in sep 1987 and fired in November.

    Was a 2* in Nov. 1988 doing a week of duties in Clancy with the .303 still because the Bk Adj didn't believe I was qualified in the FN and ended up helping on the Ord Gp that was finalizing on the Steyr, and got to shoot a few rounds.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  24. #41
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Was a 2* in Nov. 1988 doing a week of duties in Clancy with the .303 still because the Bk Adj didn't believe I was qualified in the FN
    I came across the opposite as Guard Commander with a PDF guard where an officer told me to go back to the stores with the FN and draw one of the cadres Steyrs when I told him I had done the conversion.

    You say the paperwork came with the Brens, this paperwork wasn't a requirement so how do you know it is accurate.


    I've seen it, it was an official log for the guns and even included the nominal price of the weapons, I know the man who kept the log...now unless you can't positively disprove that which I know about those weapons...
    stop speculating...

    There were rounds fired on security & ATCP duties maybe on hundreds through 1 barrel but it is more paper
    .

    Where did you serve,,, Gun Fight at the OK corral, hundreds of rounds up one barrel......

    And yet we did conversion in 2000 and the unit didn't get Steyrs until 2002 at least.
    Should have joined a more progressive unit! We started using the cadres weapons then got some brand new ones...and then the rest were reconditioned ones, Have pictures of myself with one in Patricks day parade 2002, same year as it was first used in All Army shooting competitions, again I know cos get what I have the photos and medal from the Brigade to show it. came third in the All Army Falling plates in Finner the same year.( 2001 was a non year alround because of the Foot and Mouth precautions...knew I was missing a year somewhere!)
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 14th January 2014 at 18:42.
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  26. #42
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Was a 2* in Nov. 1988 doing a week of duties in Clancy with the .303 still because the Bk Adj didn't believe I was qualified in the FN
    me too - same time same place - although i always grabbed one of the Regs FN's whenever i actually had to have a weapon in hand.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  27. #43
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Oh no I started those duties with the Fn. The Bk. Adj. who was a snaggy mcsnags made me put it back and take a 303 ( not that I was bitter , am still bitter and remember it to this day . Or anything )
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  29. #44
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    I used to do a few duties in Fermoy from time to time...FCA guards with PDF stand to parties, the younger orderly officers used to have to get the BOS to mount us as they couldn't figure out the arms drill.....a howl!
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  30. #45
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    I used to do a few duties in Fermoy from time to time...FCA guards with PDF stand to parties, the younger orderly officers used to have to get the BOS to mount us as they couldn't figure out the arms drill.....a howl!
    Had the same problem when I was in the Slua during summer camp in Camden , got sent over to the Base for a week and done a guard duty with the .303 . Ended up just winging it with the mounting and dismouning . A few years later during my NCOs course on Spike I was the only PDF in the guard , this time I had the FN and and the rest had the .303 . ( I was also very hungover ) .
    Last edited by Laners; 15th January 2014 at 21:36.
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

  31. #46
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Black FNs All army falling plates winners 1997.


    Just to put it in context, the last Southern Brigade shoot using the .303 was in 1991

    Attachment 7378
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 28th January 2014 at 20:25.
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  32. #47
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Black FNs All army falling plates winners 1997.


    Just to put it in context, the last Southern Brigade shoot using the .303 was in 1991

    Attachment 7378
    What was the gustav for?
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  33. #48
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    What was the gustav for?
    ???

  34. #49
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    ???
    In the picture of the FN equipped rifle team one man has a Gustav
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  35. #50
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    In the picture of the FN equipped rifle team one man has a Gustav
    Good eyes

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