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  1. #101
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Fair play to all those volunteers who sacrifice their time and lives and the artificial betterment of their own lives to make those lives of others better!
    Yes fair play to them and the danger they put others in and the cost related to getting them out ofthe shite just because they felt like being the Messiah for their ego trip.

    Well done! we really need that type of dedication in this country today..why not just stay at home and help out our own disadvantaged , at least you'd be able to getthe bus home after work as opposed to having to call out a Jet.

    Thnaks MR. Goal and Mr Concern and Mr Trocaire ..just what we needed..an army of ill equiped poorly trained potential hostages.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  2. #102
    bosun
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Yes fair play to them and the danger they put others in and the cost related to getting them out ofthe shite just because they felt like being the Messiah for their ego trip.

    Well done! we really need that type of dedication in this country today..why not just stay at home and help out our own disadvantaged , at least you'd be able to getthe bus home after work as opposed to having to call out a Jet.

    Thnaks MR. Goal and Mr Concern and Mr Trocaire ..just what we needed..an army of ill equiped poorly trained potential hostages.
    well said murph and lets hope the army of builders will stay home from south africa this year and build a few class rooms for our own children ie take cabra for example the floors have holes in them from the rats

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden rivet View Post
    well said murph and lets hope the army of builders will stay home from south africa this year and build a few class rooms for our own children ie take cabra for example the floors have holes in them from the rats
    Because there's a shortage of idle builders in Ireland at the moment?

  4. #104
    bosun
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxtrotRK View Post
    Because there's a shortage of idle builders in Ireland at the moment?
    they are still charging 1.50 a block

  5. #105
    private REX's Avatar
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    Was the Government jet not dispatched to Sudan to pick up the team from the Dept of Foreign Affairs that were negotiating for the release of Miss Cummins? Why not bring her back if there was room for her in the jet?
    CRIME SCENE INSTIGATOR

  6. #106
    Closed knocker's Avatar
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    I admire anyone who goes out to do voluntary work. However, given their experiences around the world, shouldnt the aid agencies have an insurance policy for kidnapping ? ie to cover the cost of aero med or repatriation flights ? The military call it " duty of care " shouldnt the agencies should apply the same principles ?
    Last edited by knocker; 28th October 2009 at 13:21.

  7. #107
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    Aid agencies try not to go in under armed guard, if they can avoid it, because it invariably means that someone will percieve them as having taken sides. Which will lead to gunfights, kidnapping,etc. Some countries are so shit that an armed escort and protection is an absolute necessity, such as Somalia, Afghanistan and others. Quite often, unless aid agencies go in, there will literally be no end to slaughter, rampant disease, famine,etc. because the State has collapsed, as in Somalia or famine has shattered a country such as Ethiopia. Try not to forget the slaughter that persisted in the Balkans, right on Europe's doorstep, a very few short years ago. Aid agencies went in there when plenty of professional, well-armed soldiers didn't. In fact, for a while, the only things that got in were emergency aid and guns.........................................I absolutely agree about the Niall Mellons of this world. If he's that desperate to build cheap housing for the deserving, he need never leave our shores. Lots of work here.
    regards
    GttC

  8. #108
    Colonel johnny no stars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    I absolutely agree about the Niall Mellons of this world. If he's that desperate to build cheap housing for the deserving, he need never leave our shores. Lots of work here.
    regards
    GttC
    Lots of vacant houses too!
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

  9. #109
    Orpheus WES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REX View Post
    Was the Government jet not dispatched to Sudan to pick up the team from the Dept of Foreign Affairs that were negotiating for the release of Miss Cummins? Why not bring her back if there was room for her in the jet?
    I wouldn't say there were too many volunteers for that particular junket.
    The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity.
    (George Bernard Shaw, Playwright, 1856 - 1950)

  10. #110
    Closed knocker's Avatar
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    Still reckon the agencies should pay something toward the cost of the operation, am sure they can do without one less person in their full time staff

  11. #111
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    End Of MATS!!

    On Etenders

    Establishment of a framework for the provision of Air Charter and Accompanying Support Services
    Published by: Department of Justice and Equality
    Publication Date: 23/08/2012


    "(3) The provision of the Ministerial Air Transport Service, for the safe passage of, inter alia, the President of Ireland, Government Ministers, Senior Officials of Government Departments and other dignitaries."




    Source

    http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/sh...x?ID=AUG378395




    Is this the end of the G4 and/or LJ45?????

  12. #112
    Major General
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    No mention of AA ops.

  13. #113
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Makes sense. It's a luxury we can manage without.
    That said, it could be that DoJ is looking for the Air Corpse to tender to keep the job.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  14. #114
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    It is mainly for numbers of around 40.

    Also includes DF flights.

  15. #115
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    while this is all good news, is there any chance that the NCE contingencies element of the tender could cut into the CASA's reason for being or size of fleet?

    in the recent Libyan evacuation both the MATS fleet and the CASA's were used, if the Govt is saying 'we want out of the NCE game', as well as the resupply of troops abroad (and i'm thinking of the recent celebrations when an IAC CASA managed to ofload some beer and Dutch Art videos at a fully functioning international airport in Lebannon...), then does the 'hectic' fisheries protection schedule merit two CASA's?

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  17. #116
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The main reason for the tender is repatriation of foreign nationals, but it would appear that this is a opportunity to reduce costs.

    It could be that is covering all the bases as flights for the DF within theatre are covered

    With regard to evacuations, Libya was the first time it as happened (apart from hostages) AFAIK.

    I was actually thinking the other week why do they do each rotation as a separate tender

  18. #117
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    From the tender document

    A.2.2 SUMMARY OF REQUIREMENTS.
    (1) The Minister for Defence is the Contracting Authority with primary interest in these
    Services for and on behalf of the Defence Forces (“the DF”). The Department of Defence
    have responsibility for the air movement of DF personnel, their equipment and other military
    material in respect of the DF participation in overseas operations. Services may originate
    and/or terminate in third countries within the mission area of the military deployment
    concerned.
    (2) The DF requirements may include the provision of fixed wing aircraft in support of the
    movement of personnel, equipment and logistic support to and from Ireland, and intra-theatre
    (i.e. within the Mission Area of the Military Deployment). The DF has the following specific
    requirements:
    i. To move troops on deployments;
    ii. To move troops on Relief in Place operations (where troops rotate after a specific
    period of time in/out of deployed overseas missions).
    iii. Medical Evacuation using fast jet capability out of Europe to the Theatre of
    Operations back to Dublin.
    (3) The contracted Framework Member should note that, mission dependent, the deployment
    or rotation of members of the Defence Forces of numbers in the range of 60-250, and the
    utilisation of aircraft holds for the carriage of certain military equipment and logistic support
    material may be required.
    (4) The contracted Framework Member should be aware the Defence Forces present client
    complexities outside the normal scope of services provided in the air charter context; both for
    passenger movements and for freight movements. The nature of DF deployed operations, and
    participation in exercise environments abroad, involves the conveyance of military personnel
    and certain military material.
    (5) There will be NO requirement for the carriage of weapons or hazardous goods on the
    aircraft although passengers will travel on board wearing military uniform.

  19. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    while this is all good news, is there any chance that the NCE contingencies element of the tender could cut into the CASA's reason for being or size of fleet?

    in the recent Libyan evacuation both the MATS fleet and the CASA's were used, if the Govt is saying 'we want out of the NCE game', as well as the resupply of troops abroad (and i'm thinking of the recent celebrations when an IAC CASA managed to ofload some beer and Dutch Art videos at a fully functioning international airport in Lebannon...), then does the 'hectic' fisheries protection schedule merit two CASA's?
    Au contraire.

    Air Corps not having to maintain & provide crews for MATS, surely means they can now provide 24/7 SAR top cover.

  20. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    Au contraire.

    Air Corps not having to maintain & provide crews for MATS, surely means they can now provide 24/7 SAR top cover.
    if they are paying a civvy contractor to do the work, will they not require the AC to get of those who were doing it in-house?

    i know that the M/E airframes are flown by a pool of aircrew and therefore if the assets are reduced there'll be more crews available for the assets that remain, but i'd be amazed if the MoF said that the DoD could retain the same number of aircrew while doing less work.

    its crap for those involved, and having felt the cold wind of involuntary redundancy blow through my cohort i'm more than a little sympathetic - but are these aircrew/management stream not exactly the side of the AC that keeps it buggering around with makey-uppy civil tasks and not living in a tent and flying helicopters in support of operation overseas?

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  22. #120
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    As pym says it means the hours are available for other tasks

  23. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I was actually thinking the other week why do they do each rotation as a separate tender
    Air operators may not be able to fit the flexibility required without adding a substantial financial premium.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

  24. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    No mention of AA ops.
    AA ops wouldn't fall into the criteria of this tender. That would require a more specialist operator of which there are several. Perhaps there is a separate tender in preparation?

    If the Air Corps loses the MATS service. It makes no sense to retain the aircraft just for AA operations. It also doesn't make sense financially or logistically to have both the Air Corps and a civilian operator providing MATS services. It does appear that they Air Corps will lose the job. The tender is specific
    from qualified and duly certified JAR OPS/EASAcarriers including recognised national flag carriers/operators.
    . The Air Corps does not qualify on that basis thus cannot bid.

    While this is not good news for the Air Corps. It is common sense and it was all but inevitable.

  25. #123
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    This will have no effect on the Air Corps Ministerial Air Transport role. The contract is to carry large delegations with heavy baggage which is outside the capacity of the Gulfstream IV.

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  27. #124
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    Maybe this be the start of privatising some IAC operations, as mentioned by a Sunday newspaper earlier in the year.

  28. #125
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    Now, what was that I mentioned a long time ago?

    Oh, yes, get focused on military operations or die a long slow lingering death. So, the death of a thousand cuts begins. Even if this isn't aimed purely at MATS, it soon will be if it shows savings and operational promise. Time for that wake up call.

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