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  1. #1
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Potential troop missions

    Looks like the DF weren't spoilt for choice when we decided to go back to UNIFIL and join UNDOF

    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...l=1#post411683

  2. #2
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    I was surprised at the amount of officer posts they turned down

    UN REQUESTS FOR DEFENCE FORCES PERSONNEL WHERE NOMINATIONS WERE NOT POSSIBLE OR ASSETS UNAVAILABLE
    Mission Nature of Request
    United Nations Missions in Sudan (UNMIS) Sudan (2006)
    Nominations for Officer appointments at mission HQ
    United Nations Support Mission in Libya (UNSMIL) (2013)
    Nominations for Judicial Affairs Experts
    United Nations Office for West Africa (UNOWA) (2013)
    Nomination for post of Senior Military Adviser
    United Nations Mission in the Republic of South Sudan (UNMISS) (2011)
    Engineer Company
    United Nations Office of the African Union (UNOAU) in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia (2010)
    Nominations for Planning Officer appointments
    United Nations Mission in Nepal (UNMIN) (2009)
    Nomination for post of Chief Military Adviser UNMIN
    United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) (2009)
    Nominations for Military Liaison Officers and a Military Adviser
    United Nations Observer Mission in Georgia (UNOMIG) (2008)
    Nomination for post of Deputy Chief Military Observer for UNOMIG
    United Nations Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan (UNMOGIP) (2008)
    Nomination for post of Chief Military Observer for UNMOGIP
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  3. #3
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Have to say I'm very surprised at the lack of requests for troops

    General request for troops for UNAMID
    Engineer Coy for UNMISS
    Last edited by DeV; 8th May 2014 at 19:48.

  4. #4
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Have to say I'm very surprised at the lack of requests for troops
    Money?
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  5. #5
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Money?
    ?? Who's??

    This list is of missions that we have been asked by international organisations to provide troops to, in the case of the UN they will pay you soon money for your troops and equipment. Some of the UN ops are very under strength!

    For example, we were asked to provide an Engr Coy to UNMISS, it is probably a higher risk mission (25 UN personnel have died in 3 years), it is a Chapter VII mission but UNMISS's authorised strength is up to 12,500 military personnel, the current strength is only 7,500
    Last edited by DeV; 8th May 2014 at 21:40.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    ?? Who's??

    This list is of missions that we have been asked by international organisations to provide troops to, in the case of the UN they will pay you soon money for your troops and equipment. Some of the UN ops are very under strength!
    All of those missions have to be paid initially by the country... and then not all money is recouped .

  7. #7
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I know but I would have expected to see requests for troops from a number of missions, which would have been turned down.

    If we aren't asked we can't deploy personnel

  8. #8
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Maybe the UN knows Ireland wont shell out the readies to get troops out to a warzone - I think we have turned down a few missions before, so mayhap now they just look over us for the proper warry stuff.
    Possibly were more suited to a (long) post war stabilisation force type mission in their eyes?
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
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  9. #9
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Maybe but that doesn't stand up for Liberia, Eriteria, Chad, East Timor etc

    The Minister's answer to the question is for all organisations (not just the UN).

  10. #10
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I know but I would have expected to see requests for troops from a number of missions, which would have been turned down.

    If we aren't asked we can't deploy personnel
    There's no point in the UN asking for a Bn sized contribution since we wont be able to provide one, ditto for a Heli detachment. I'm sure the UN bureaucrats of which there are probably legions figured out what we're able to provide and tailor their requests accordingly.
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  11. #11
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    They didn't even ask for a coy!

    I doubt we have sufficient resources (or personnel since the reorg) to deploy a Engr Coy

  12. #12
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    No request for personnel (apart from 2 HQ SOs) or vessels from EUNAVFOR

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    No request for personnel (apart from 2 HQ SOs) or vessels from EUNAVFOR
    From Dail debate 12 December 2012.
    Ireland received an invitation from the operational commander of Operation Atalanta of the European Union Naval Force Somalia, EU NAVFOR, to contribute an autonomous vessel protection detachment, AVPD, to the operation.
    http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas....l2012121200026

  14. #14
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    This list is of missions that we have been asked by international organisations to provide troops to, in the case of the UN they will pay you soon money for your troops and equipment. Some of the UN ops are very under strength!
    the UN hadn't cleared the tab for Unifil 1 until some years after the mission had ended, but I wonder are missions under strenght because no body else is willing to contribute because of funding?
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  15. #15
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    It would probably be seen as a little bit cynical, or as a political fudge but, what if a 'compromise' to reaching the (UN inspired) target 0.7% of GDP as a spend on the Overseas Aid budget commitment for 2015; was announced as a ...Large... Defence Forces commitment to a worthy UN mission in Africa for 2015?!

    €20million was cited as the reduction this year from spending on Overseas Aid last year.... How much of a mission would €20million get - excluding UN reimbursement?

    Said stated compromise could be allocated as an increase in the Overseas Aid commitment or, DF spending...whichever.
    Personally, I wouldn't consider it a cynical manoeuver at all if acknowledged up front...

  16. #16
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    So a where next thread?


    (From the UNDOF thread)
    Last edited by DeV; 22nd September 2014 at 21:45.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    So a where next thread?
    somewhere useful.

    Mali? CAR? Somalia? South Sudan? Darfur? Ivory Coast?

    no more penny-packet missions with a Coy here and there and dodgy mandates - a full Bn Group task with lots of soldiering, not monitoring elections or counting rounds on a two-way range, but going out and providing real security for people who need it and to allow development teams and NGO's to function.

    personally, i'd say than unless somethoing of that ilk is available, spend the money that you would spend on a UN mission (and the UN don't compensate for all costs..) on sending a Bn group on a full, all-arms exercise somewhere vast like Canada or Kenya.

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  19. #18
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Absolutely agree with you on a battalion group - more personnel (especially junior), logistically in some ways easier

    But why send troops on ex for at most a month if you can't operationally?

    Chapter VII mandate yes

    But in the real world, the only way we can afford it is a UN mission

  20. #19
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Mali - the EUTM has the troops it needs
    - UN mission needs more troops

    CAR - the UN mission has less than 10% of the troops it needs so maybe (until you need reinforcements) and it has the mandate
    - the EU mission is only 800 personnel and is deployed in a very small area

    Somalia - a EUTM where we do have a small number of troops

    South Sudan - a rapidly failing state where UNMISS has now prioritised protection of civilians on UN sites (safe havens anyone?) but are doing very little to help the State actually develop anymore

    Darfur - the UN mission needs more troops

    Ivory Coast - the UN mission is more or less up to strength

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  22. #20
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    [QUOTE=DeV;417677]...But why send troops on ex for at most a month if you can't operationally?..QUOTE]

    because while we all know that Ireland sends forces on UN PK/PE jobs because it believes in the milk of human kindness, we also know that it sends forces on such jobs because the experience of such missions has a very positive effect on the skills and doctrine of the DF for its prime purpose, the defence of the state.

    sending a full BG to one of the big Canadian training areas and ranting the feck out of it for 3 months doing full, all arms manouver warfare exercises over an area of 2,500 km2 is going to have less of an effect than doing Chad for 3 years, but it will do a lot more for training states and experience than sitting at home.

  23. #21
    Private 3* Jungle's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=ropebag;417682]
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    ...But why send troops on ex for at most a month if you can't operationally?..QUOTE]
    sending a full BG to one of the big Canadian training areas and ranting the feck out of it for 3 months doing full, all arms manouver warfare exercises over an area of 2,500 km2 is going to have less of an effect than doing Chad for 3 years, but it will do a lot more for training states and experience than sitting at home.
    Send a BG every year to our CMTC

    A 1-month trip would be sufficient, after prior preps at home, to prepare the unit for high-tempo, full spectrum ops.
    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

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  25. #22
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    Jungle. Passed one of your subs off Daytona beach Flordia last week.
    Last edited by sofa; 23rd September 2014 at 01:37.

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    Private 3* Jungle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    Jungle. Passed one of your subs off Daytona beach Flordia last week.
    Cool, I saw one in the same area a few years ago during EX UNITAS GOLD, and actually visited a Brazilian Type 209.
    Are you still in the States ? Any plans to go west ?
    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

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  29. #24
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=ropebag;417682]
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    ...But why send troops on ex for at most a month if you can't operationally?..QUOTE]

    because while we all know that Ireland sends forces on UN PK/PE jobs because it believes in the milk of human kindness, we also know that it sends forces on such jobs because the experience of such missions has a very positive effect on the skills and doctrine of the DF for its prime purpose, the defence of the state.

    sending a full BG to one of the big Canadian training areas and ranting the feck out of it for 3 months doing full, all arms manouver warfare exercises over an area of 2,500 km2 is going to have less of an effect than doing Chad for 3 years, but it will do a lot more for training states and experience than sitting at home.
    [QUOTE=Jungle;417685]
    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post

    Send a BG every year to our CMTC

    A 1-month trip would be sufficient, after prior preps at home, to prepare the unit for high-tempo, full spectrum ops.
    Unfortunately you have no idea of the realities of the DF financial or political position.

    An advantages the DF gets from are merely a side effect of the reason the Government deploys them.

    How do you think the idea of a 1-3 month trip doing exercises in Canada will float with the Irish public when new only 100 of a promised 300 new police are being taken on because of the financial situation, when educational services to special needs children are being cut back, when hospital waiting lists can be counted in years. The State has priorities.

    The official Government threat assessment sees zero external military threat (didn't even mention it as a just in case).

    The DF is a light infantry all arms force, we have enough APCs for a Bn, have enough Cav vehicles for a squadron minus (if you count the LTAVs). So a exercise deployment may be limited by that. That's apart from the fact that 3 months training at op tempo would probably cost the annual training budget. Then you have the cost of flying personnel and shipping equipment (plus the opportunity cost of the non-availability of personnel and equipment at home (eg all the armour for the EUBG (nevermind most of the DF's armour) would be gone).

    Would it be good? Yes
    Useful? Yes
    Affordable? No

  30. #25
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    How much would hiring a car ferry for a month or so cost? Or better yet, link up with the likes of another EU country and use their sea lift capability?
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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