Potential troop missions

[DeV]

So a where next thread?


(From the UNDOF thread)

[ropebag]

So a where next thread?

somewhere useful.

Mali? CAR? Somalia? South Sudan? Darfur? Ivory Coast?

no more penny-packet missions with a Coy here and there and dodgy mandates - a full Bn Group task with lots of soldiering, not monitoring elections or counting rounds on a two-way range, but going out and providing real security for people who need it and to allow development teams and NGO's to function.

personally, i'd say than unless somethoing of that ilk is available, spend the money that you would spend on a UN mission (and the UN don't compensate for all costs..) on sending a Bn group on a full, all-arms exercise somewhere vast like Canada or Kenya.

[DeV]

Absolutely agree with you on a battalion group - more personnel (especially junior), logistically in some ways easier

But why send troops on ex for at most a month if you can't operationally?

Chapter VII mandate yes

But in the real world, the only way we can afford it is a UN mission

[DeV]

Mali - the EUTM has the troops it needs
- UN mission needs more troops

CAR - the UN mission has less than 10% of the troops it needs so maybe (until you need reinforcements) and it has the mandate
- the EU mission is only 800 personnel and is deployed in a very small area

Somalia - a EUTM where we do have a small number of troops

South Sudan - a rapidly failing state where UNMISS has now prioritised protection of civilians on UN sites (safe havens anyone?) but are doing very little to help the State actually develop anymore

Darfur - the UN mission needs more troops

Ivory Coast - the UN mission is more or less up to strength

[ropebag]

[QUOTE=DeV;417677]...But why send troops on ex for at most a month if you can't operationally?..QUOTE]

because while we all know that Ireland sends forces on UN PK/PE jobs because it believes in the milk of human kindness, we also know that it sends forces on such jobs because the experience of such missions has a very positive effect on the skills and doctrine of the DF for its prime purpose, the defence of the state.

sending a full BG to one of the big Canadian training areas and ranting the feck out of it for 3 months doing full, all arms manouver warfare exercises over an area of 2,500 km2 is going to have less of an effect than doing Chad for 3 years, but it will do a lot more for training states and experience than sitting at home.

[Jungle]

[QUOTE=ropebag;417682]

...But why send troops on ex for at most a month if you can't operationally?..QUOTE]
sending a full BG to one of the big Canadian training areas and ranting the feck out of it for 3 months doing full, all arms manouver warfare exercises over an area of 2,500 km2 is going to have less of an effect than doing Chad for 3 years, but it will do a lot more for training states and experience than sitting at home.

Send a BG every year to our CMTC

A 1-month trip would be sufficient, after prior preps at home, to prepare the unit for high-tempo, full spectrum ops.

[sofa]

Jungle. Passed one of your subs off Daytona beach Flordia last week.

[Jungle]

Jungle. Passed one of your subs off Daytona beach Flordia last week.

Cool, I saw one in the same area a few years ago during EX UNITAS GOLD, and actually visited a Brazilian Type 209.
Are you still in the States ? Any plans to go west ?

[DeV]

[QUOTE=ropebag;417682]

...But why send troops on ex for at most a month if you can't operationally?..QUOTE]

because while we all know that Ireland sends forces on UN PK/PE jobs because it believes in the milk of human kindness, we also know that it sends forces on such jobs because the experience of such missions has a very positive effect on the skills and doctrine of the DF for its prime purpose, the defence of the state.

sending a full BG to one of the big Canadian training areas and ranting the feck out of it for 3 months doing full, all arms manouver warfare exercises over an area of 2,500 km2 is going to have less of an effect than doing Chad for 3 years, but it will do a lot more for training states and experience than sitting at home.

[QUOTE=Jungle;417685]

Send a BG every year to our CMTC

A 1-month trip would be sufficient, after prior preps at home, to prepare the unit for high-tempo, full spectrum ops.

Unfortunately you have no idea of the realities of the DF financial or political position.

An advantages the DF gets from are merely a side effect of the reason the Government deploys them.

How do you think the idea of a 1-3 month trip doing exercises in Canada will float with the Irish public when new only 100 of a promised 300 new police are being taken on because of the financial situation, when educational services to special needs children are being cut back, when hospital waiting lists can be counted in years. The State has priorities.

The official Government threat assessment sees zero external military threat (didn't even mention it as a just in case).

The DF is a light infantry all arms force, we have enough APCs for a Bn, have enough Cav vehicles for a squadron minus (if you count the LTAVs). So a exercise deployment may be limited by that. That's apart from the fact that 3 months training at op tempo would probably cost the annual training budget. Then you have the cost of flying personnel and shipping equipment (plus the opportunity cost of the non-availability of personnel and equipment at home (eg all the armour for the EUBG (nevermind most of the DF's armour) would be gone).

Would it be good? Yes
Useful? Yes
Affordable? No

[morpheus]

How much would hiring a car ferry for a month or so cost? Or better yet, link up with the likes of another EU country and use their sea lift capability?

[DeV]

Is there many car ferries (capable of crossing the Atlantic) available for charter?

Every extra cost makes a difference

[Shaqra]

Is there many car ferries (capable of crossing the Atlantic) available for charter?

Every extra cost makes a difference

Looks like there's at least one free - http://www.tradewindsnews.com/weekly...rnment-charter

[na grohmiti]

Is there many car ferries (capable of crossing the Atlantic) available for charter?

Every extra cost makes a difference

There is one on a regular route, passes off cork weekly Loads/unloads at Liverpool.

http://www.aclcargo.com/vesselSchedules.php

[DeV]

Looks like there's at least one free - http://www.tradewindsnews.com/weekly...rnment-charter

There is one on a regular route, passes off cork weekly Loads/unloads at Liverpool.

http://www.aclcargo.com/vesselSchedules.php

I merely answered the question on renting

Think of the cost of getting 100+ large vehicles on a ferry to Liverpool, on an ACL vessel and then acrosd Canada.

Compared with say Poland

[ropebag]

...Every extra cost makes a difference

true, and you're right, we probably don't really get how tight everything is - but Ireland has friends who'd be happy to help, even if she doesn't realise it.

moving a full BG across the Atlantic is not a big deal in NATO capability terms, infact its small-fry. we have naval assets, and we have contractor assets - and there are 60,000 ton car transport ships sitting at anchor doing feck-all, we can work something out, if neccessary through the PfP development programme.

if even that is a problem, there are large mech training areas in the UK we'd be happy to host an Irish Ex on - Sennybridge is 40,000 acres and two hours drive from Pembroke Dock, Salisbury Plain is 94,000 acres and 90 minutes drive from Southampton Dock.

remember, it is in our national interests that Ireland has a capable, well-equipped military able to undertake operations both at home and overseas. shoving a few quid into the kitty so that a car transporter can be hired is not outside of our interests.