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  • Back on track as they say.

    A while back Saab mentioned a Ford Everst that had been "worked on" to make it an LTV. I know this work was not done by Ford but it got me thinking about who may be doing the work. Stoof International did all the work on our Land Cruisers in the Stan. Their site is worth a look as it contains a lot of information about what can be done to a base vehicle. More armour orientated but still worth a look if your interested in that sort of thing.

    Back to the Ford converter,,,,,Went searching, found them. RMA Group. Link below to their download page. Scroll down to "Conversions" and look at the Ford's in particular. I say Ford as they seem to be the vehicle supplier the DF are looking at just now.

    Lots of interesting pdf's about what can be done to a singular platform in various roles. The Everest and the Ranger share same engine and drive train as well as multiple components. All part of the commonality plan. Armour, LTV, Ambo, GS, Workshop etc etc.

    Having discussed grizzly kit like the Aus and Canadian G's I went full circle and suggested the Transit as a common platform. Both ideas shot down

    There is defiantly a steer towards civilian SUV's so lets go with it. Everest and Ranger as a replacement for not just the Pajero but all light platforms in the DF fulfilling many roles at home and overseas. Thing to remember is Ford don't make them that way, third part companies do, at a cost. Going back to Stoof, they turned our $80,000 Land Cruisers into something that saved many lives (including my own) for a fee in excess of $100,000 (on top of the 80k).

    The other thing to remember is that a civilian SUV marketed as being a 7 seater is in fact a 4 seater. The missing 3 are children. Simple, you will not get more than 4 blokes in full kit (BA, BV, Bin Lid & Weapon) in these things and have them be in anyway effective. Its one thing piling 7 lads into one in their glad rags to take them down the train station on a Friday evening. Its another to have them kitted up and operational. Maybe a look at your Orbat is also required (5 man CSW teams, too big).

    But a civilian SUV is what the DF want. So I'm saying go for it but for god's sake go for it right. Buy the one platform (Everest & Ranger are basically the same) enter a long contract for parts and service support, buy in bulk (spend your vehicle budget for the next 15 years in a oner, your going to spend it anyway). Employ your third party conversion specialist to do the work (their liable for the work, base workshop's are not) on the vic's you require converting. Make it do at least a dozen different jobs (mentioned). Then sit back in the knowledge that that,s it for the next 15 years. 10 years before you start looking for the next one plus 5 years to find it and test it to death.

    Will post some pdf's.

    Aint going to happen, but its good to chat about it .

    Link to RMA:

    The RMA Group is a leader in global business solutions with multiple operational niches in Automotive, Hospitality, Financial Services and more.


    Link to Stoof:

    Sondergeschützte Fahrzeuge vom Marktführer. Bei STOOF finden Sie gepanzerte Limousinen, Lkw & Jeeps. Jetzt Informationsgespräch vereinbaren!
    Attached Files
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

    Comment


    • Few more pdf's.
      Attached Files
      We travel not for trafficking alone,
      By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
      For lust of knowing what should not be known,
      We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

      Comment


      • Few more again

        As mentioned there is loads more on their site (see the RMA link above) get on it and start looking, just for fun. Its NGO, UN, Industry focused but the options are interesting.

        The thing is lad's, it costs to convert them. It costs a lot. It also costs a lot to buy Military Off The Shelf.

        It costs a lot less to wander down the road to your local car dealer and buy yet another make/model to add to the already endless list of existing makes/models that will not perform and need changing way before its end of life. Short sighted and counterproductive!

        Time to clean house me thinks, penny packet purchasing every few years costs a lot more in the long run, simple's. There is no golden goose, but there are plenty of ducks out there that can and do come close to laying that all round golden egg. If you are willing to pay for it.
        Attached Files
        We travel not for trafficking alone,
        By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
        For lust of knowing what should not be known,
        We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

        Comment


        • Didn't mean to dislike FMP

          A you speak a lot of sense but you don't spend your spares budget in 1 go, why?
          They have a shelf life
          You may find that go through some spares faster than you though

          Enter a whole life support contract, that guarantees spares availability, computer software upgrades for 15-20 years
          And you pay x extra per vehicle in the purchase price, y every 5 years or z annually

          Comment


          • Go for the annual payment - I once worked in a lab that paid through the nose upfront for IT support for it's new system for five years - in under a year the company went bust, was bought by somebody else, and we ended up paying through the nose a second time for IT support, given by the same individuals who had already been paid...
            'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
            'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
            Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
            He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
            http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

            Comment


            • Dev no worries on the dislike mate it happens.

              You are dead right and I suppose I did simplify the expenditure process a bit. By the spending in a "oner" comment what I'm trying to say is that the initial bulk purchase of all your vehicles becomes a Capex. DoD DoF etc would have to authorise the spending of such a large amount of money in one hit. The pay off would come in the next 15 to 20 years because your not having to purchase 100 vehicles here another 100 there every few years. The "your going to spend it anyway" part of my statement. Your yearly budget would then reflect this Capex "repayment" by having your overall budget reduced.

              As part of the deal with the vehicle supplier (whoever it may be) you have your 15 to 20 year service support contract. This becomes your Opex. This expenditure is budgeted for on a yearly basis. The contract should include midlife upgrades, modernisation program, guarantee of parts (as the specs of your chosen vehicle will no doubt change over the years) delivery scheduled for spare's etc based on your estimated usage with a plus factor built in. Fixed price on all these for x years to be reviewed at various stages, call it 5 years. Again making budgeting more simplified, you know for the next 5 years its going to cost you x to keep your fleet running.

              Flamingo, I do understand your point, fully. The difference between the two is on one hand your dealing with a multinational and on the other your dealing with a (presumably) local grown niche supplier. I am guessing but I take it that it was not Apple or Microsoft that you speak of when the mentioned IT lot went bust. Either way I hope you see my point. Go with the big player, it may cost a bit more but you can (almost) guarantee they will be still around as your 15 to 20 year contract draws to a close. Mercedes Benz, Land Rover, Ford, all the Jap manufacturers, safe bets .
              We travel not for trafficking alone,
              By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
              For lust of knowing what should not be known,
              We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

              Comment


              • Any photos of the Fords in Irish service, new ones I mean

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                • Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
                  Any photos of the Fords in Irish service, new ones I mean
                  I've only seen an MP one to date
                  "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                  Comment


                  • A Guest post from Andrew B Although I have no military background I take a keen interest in procurement especially where vehicles are concerned. I have been a been a Police Traffic Officer for some 2…

                    Comment


                    • DeV

                      Do like the VW Amarok,,,,,apart from the "Square" wheel arches, but that's just me being picky .

                      Austrian/German company called Achleitner (link below) do a nice remodel on the Amarok. Designed for military costomers looking for COTS based vehicles. Basically an Amarok made a bit more robust and fitted for radio etc. As mentioned before its always better to have someone else liable for this kind of work rather than base workshops. You can sue the pants off them if it all goes wrong, provided you wrote a good scope of work/contract beforehand.

                      Makes for an interesting option though.

                      The Geson 4 x 4 (As its known) paired with the basic Amarok as your LV fleet. One to take care of the "white" roles and the other models to take care of your "Green" roles.

                      On a different note they also do a very nice job on what is basically the Mercedes Sprinter 4 x 4 van. Popper 4 x 4 too, none of your eco-friendly "four-motion" carryon . And a rather lovely "pimp my ride" job on a Toyota Land Cruiser.

                      Will fire a few pdf/pic's over in the next post, or have a look on their site if you like:

                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by FMP; 31 August 2014, 14:17.
                      We travel not for trafficking alone,
                      By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
                      For lust of knowing what should not be known,
                      We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

                      Comment


                      • From my last post and not related to the Pajero, but I promised I would post a pic or two, forgive me Mod's .

                        Pics are of the Mantra 4 x 4. In another guise the MB Sprinter.

                        Particularly like the 4 x 4 Twin Cab DROPS,,,,,,,,,,,,,, mmmmmmm prime mover for the 105's. Six crew in the twin cab, pallet of ammo on the DROPS, gun to the rear on tow (where else would it be ).

                        Attached Files
                        We travel not for trafficking alone,
                        By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
                        For lust of knowing what should not be known,
                        We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

                        Comment


                        • Looks good but:
                          In the crew cab can you fit 5 guys in battle vests ?
                          Cost ?
                          Armour options ?
                          Will it take a box body, eg ambulance, without suffering stability and mobility problems ?

                          The whole point is standardise not 2 vehicles
                          Last edited by DeV; 31 August 2014, 14:50.

                          Comment


                          • Back in Pajero territory .

                            The pimped out Land Cruiser, Station Wagon and Pickup. Known as the MMV Survivor.

                            Attached Files
                            We travel not for trafficking alone,
                            By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
                            For lust of knowing what should not be known,
                            We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              Looks good but:
                              In the crew cab can you fit 5 guys in battle vests ?
                              Cost ?
                              Armour options ?
                              Will it take a box body, eg ambulance, without suffering stability and mobility problems ?

                              The whole point is standardise not 2 vehicles
                              Sorry DeV which vehicle are you referring to? The Mantra/Sprinter? If so that post was not related to the Pajero replacement chat just threw it in there out of interest as they do the VW and LC conversions as well. It is an interesting vehicle but if anything it's heading into HGV land.

                              Crew Cab is reported to seat 7. Normal people that is so yes I think it would be capable of taking 5/6 in kit.

                              As for the remainder of your questions DeV no idea , but if you want it and are willing to pay for it optional extras are out there. Just quickly killing a half hour or so, not had too much time to delve into details,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I know, I know,,,,bad drills!
                              Last edited by FMP; 31 August 2014, 15:12.
                              We travel not for trafficking alone,
                              By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
                              For lust of knowing what should not be known,
                              We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

                              Comment


                              • Very capable selection of vehicles there. The MMV Survivor/ Land Cruiser looks to be similar to our basic 4x4 requirement

                                The other mulitask vehicles are something we need to look at to reduce attrition on the everyday 4x4 fleet.
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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