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  • Originally posted by FMP View Post
    Sorry DeV which vehicle are you referring to? The Mantra/Sprinter? If so that post was not related to the Pajero replacement chat just threw it in there out of interest as they do the VW and LC conversions as well. It is an interesting vehicle but if anything it's heading into HGV land.

    Crew Cab is reported to seat 7. Normal people that is so yes I think it would be capable of taking 5/6 in kit.

    As for the remainder of your questions DeV no idea , but if you want it and are willing to pay for it optional extras are out there. Just quickly killing a half hour or so, not had too much time to delve into details,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I know, I know,,,,bad drills!
    The Amarok


    Does that DROPS Sprinter have that pulling power to take a pallet of 105 (say 100 rounds at 15kg each) and tow the gun (>1800 kg), plus 6 man crew (with kit for 3 days) and across rough ground?

    Comment


    • DeV

      Reference the old Amarok, seating hmmmm. That old chestnut .

      Well the short answer is yes,,,,,,because that's what the manufactures say. Their vehicle will seat 5. That's what the manufactures of every twin cab pick up say, seating for 5. Be it VW, Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Izizu,,,,,,all the same, "our twin cab will seat 5"! (Or 7 if you look at their station wagons).

      Course you and I know that's a load of bollocks, you will seat 4 full grown adults comfortably, 5 will be a squeeze. 5 with body armour, battle vests, bin lids and weapons and have them be in anyway usefull,,,, your having a laugh.

      Like I have said before DeV, you either change your orbat on your CSW teams (5 men on an 81, HMG, GPMG SF is mad), or up the specs on your LV till its something like a VW T5 or Transit Custom in 4 x 4, a van basically. You will NOT find a suitable vehicle that ticks all your boxes if you keep looking at civilian SUV/Pick Up type's of wagons. Something has got to change.

      I have no idea of the cost of the tricked out Amarok I'm afraid, but it will cost more that the plain old one bought down the road from your local dealer. Of course you then have to spend the money getting it fit for, or something close to fit for purpose. I argue why not spend that money with a third party that will be liable for the work and the work warrantied.

      As for armour, you can have any vehicle you want armoured, I have in the past posted links to the likes of Stoof and RMA who all do aftermarket armour kits, and their good. You pay for it and like anything in life you get what you pay for, whats your budget?

      Box/panel body on the VW single cab pickup? Again DeV its down to design, make it too big and heavy, don't up-rate your suspension, don't train the drivers properly,,,,its going over. But there are enough examples out there of how its done right, your own Land Rover ambo's for example. The wont have the road handling of a normal Landy but then its not a normal Landy. Same for the Ford Ranger ambo's that i posted pdf's of some posts back. Mind you have the DF not bought some Iveco daily 4 x 4 ambo's? Nice trucks.

      Going on to the Mantra 4 x 4 as a gun puller, and to answer your question on that. My opinion, absolutely no problem at all. To all you questions on it actually .
      The Mantra, depending on configuration ranges from a GVW of 5000Kg to 7000Kg with a payload capacity ranging from 2,400Kg to 4,000Kg. The L118/9 is as named a light gun. 1,800Kg as you rightly said. That's vertical lift weight, not horizontal draw weight. The L118/9 has been in use for years by rapid deployment units like the Commando and 16 Air Assault brigades because it is a "Light Gun" it has be pulled by vehicles much lighter than the Mantra and those same vehicles have carried/pulled up to 160 rds of 105mm at the same time as the gun. Vehicles like the Land Rover 101, 4 x 4 and 6 x 6 Pinzgauger and most spectacular of all the little Supacat ATMP (see attached pics, each pallet contains 40 x boxes, each box contains 2 x rds. 80 rds per pallet). All of these vehicles had lesser GVW and payload weight than the Mantra and did a superb job. The Mantra is remember a proper 4 x 4, designed by the same people that gave us Unimog and G Wagon, outstanding off road pedigree.

      Getting away from guns and looking at tubes, found a nice version of the Mantra designed to CARRY, not pull, a 120mm mortar, 48 rds of ready to use ammo, 6 man crew and associated kit. Will fire details up after this post. Getting a bit off topic now, but maybe that's the answer. To fulfill your needs in as many areas as possible maybe that's where you should be looking, mid sized van type 4 x 4's not SUV's because SUV's don't seem to work for you. Just a thought.
      Attached Files
      We travel not for trafficking alone,
      By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
      For lust of knowing what should not be known,
      We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

      Comment


      • The Mantra twin cab 4 x 4 120mm mortar carrier.

        Lovely bit of kit!!
        Attached Files
        We travel not for trafficking alone,
        By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
        For lust of knowing what should not be known,
        We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by FMP View Post
          either change your orbat on your CSW teams (5 men on an 81, HMG, GPMG SF is mad), or up the specs on your LV till its something like a VW T5 or Transit Custom in 4 x 4, a van basically. You will NOT find a suitable vehicle that ticks all your boxes if you keep looking at civilian SUV/Pick Up type's of wagons. Something has got to change.

          Getting a bit off topic now, but maybe that's the answer. To fulfill your needs in as many areas as possible maybe that's where you should be looking, mid sized van type 4 x 4's not SUV's because SUV's don't seem to work for you. Just a thought.
          VW T5 4Motion.

          4 x 4 in a SWB, 5/6 door van with a foot print not much bigger than your average estate car. That will seat 5 adults (in combi mode) on seats made for proper grown up adults and have a shed load of room in the rear . Available in as many variants as you can possibly dream up. Still like that Mantra/Sprinter 4 x 4 thingy though, very nice vehicle.

          Bit of a vid for vid's sake.

          Off Road Competition by Volkswagen. Seikel Suspension with 30mm more ground clearance. Made in Germany.Website: http://www.weglos.euBlog: http://blog.weglos.eu


          And some pic's of T5 4Motion's in service with the German Wermach,,,,,,, sorry the German Bundesheer.
          Attached Files
          We travel not for trafficking alone,
          By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
          For lust of knowing what should not be known,
          We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

          Comment


          • How much do they cost?

            €42,000 approx

            Nice setup here

            Last edited by TangoSierra; 2 September 2014, 12:08.

            Comment


            • Those vw 4x4 vans are absolute shite, they wouldn't last long. The CoCo here had nothing but trouble with them.
              Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                How much do they cost?

                €42,000 approx

                Nice setup here

                http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=95224
                43K for the Rockton setup 35K for your out the factory door model 4 x 4.

                That's a fair price for what you get. Not the cheapest option per unit but,,,,,,,,,,,

                Looking at the big picture of standardisation, commonality and economy of scale,,,,. The T5 comes in SWB, LWB, 4 x 4, 4 x 2, low, medium and high top. Panel van, Combi, minibus, twin cab pickup. Used as ambulances,,,,,,,,,,,,,and all the rest. Those used to my posts know where I'm going with this . Add that all up, replace god knows how many one off non standard piles of shite and suddenly its not an expensive option at all, its bloody good value for money. Go to VW and tell em you want their Passat's, Caddy's and Crafter's as well to replace all your staff cars, runabout vans and larger vehicles and the economy of scale becomes even more apparent.

                The rail seating system is a very nice feature, makes for a very adaptable vehicle indeed. Convert your SWB from a two seater up to a ten seater and anything in between.

                Like it,,,,though I am a little bit bias towards the old VW .
                Attached Files
                We travel not for trafficking alone,
                By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
                For lust of knowing what should not be known,
                We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                  Those vw 4x4 vans are absolute shite, they wouldn't last long. The CoCo here had nothing but trouble with them.
                  Jack,

                  while I cant comment on CoCo and what they were or were not doing to fcuk their vans up. How do you fcuk German engineering up? Really! How do you fcuk German perfection up? What a bunch of clowns .

                  I can however comment on my own experience of them .

                  Bought my 2.5 TDI VW T5 4 x 4 Combi in 2006, was a family day to day/holiday/school run bus until 2012 when I had it converted to a camper by J.A.S. Conversions in Weston-super-Mare. Currently has 110,000 + on the clock and is still sounding and running sweet. Miles that is, not K's. Been up and down Ireland a few times, all over the UK and the odd trip round parts of Europe. My experience of them has been great, so too all the other 4Motion and Syncro drivers I have spoken to. You know what us bus drivers are like .

                  VW have always built a 4 x 4 option for their Transporter. Started with the T3 and was known as the Syncro back then. While rare in the UK and Ireland they were well known and used throughout Europe by everyone from the Military to Police, Civil Defense to Fire and Rescue, Ambulance Service's to Public Service's. Still are to this day, though mostly in converted camper form.



                  Now days its the T5 4Motion. New to the VW bus tribe are the Caddy and the Crafter, available in 4 x 4 as well .

                  Just my opinions mate I can assure you I have no influence whatsoever over what the DF choose for their LV fleet or how it should be done. Not a single tiny part of the disorganised, non-conforming, non-standardized, disaster that is a vehicle fleet has been influenced by me, sadly .
                  We travel not for trafficking alone,
                  By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
                  For lust of knowing what should not be known,
                  We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

                  Comment


                  • FMP the CoCo would be a much better comparison in terms of working life, maintenance, abuse and mileage than family holidays. The family holiday testing wouldn't have come up with snags with the pajeros and they've been a great success.... The CoCo replaced them with ssanyong Jeeps which have performed admirably and not shit the bed after pulling in on the side of the road a few times, they have them nearly 10 years at this stage. You don't see tradesmen with transporter 4x4s either due to their reputation.
                    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

                    Comment


                    • Toyota Hiaces, that's what's needed. Ten thousand knackers can't be wrong!
                      'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                      'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                      Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                      He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                      http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                        You don't see tradesmen with transporter 4x4s either due to their reputation.
                        You don't see 99.9% of tradesmen in anything 4 x 4. Good old 4 x 2 panel vans are all that are required in 99.9% of cases.

                        Of course statistics state that 75.336% of statistics are inaccurate.

                        Like I said mate just my own opinion based on my own outings with them "was a family day to day/holiday/school run bus". 8 years old, 110,000 miles on the clock and still ticking like a Swiss watch. That's a average of 14,000 miles a year. Not huge, but not bad either. What's an old DF Pajero average a year? Anyone got a figure? Just out of curiosity.
                        We travel not for trafficking alone,
                        By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
                        For lust of knowing what should not be known,
                        We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

                        Comment


                        • Right, whats next on the list?

                          Nissan, Pathfinder and Navara. Same vehicle or at least 99.9% the same vehicle. Station wagon, twin cab and single cab pick up's. Seating for 4 in kit in the station wagon and the twin cab .

                          Twin cab and single pickup capable of taking all sorts of hard tops and modules to cater for all sorts of requirements. Multi tasking!!!

                          Surprised to see the old BW using them but they did try and disguise them by removing the Nissan badge from the grill on the PF. Second row has had the center seat removed completely and replaced with a radio stack, they did not even try and get more than 4 bods in there.

                          Some PF pics, last one shows seating configuration.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by FMP; 3 September 2014, 07:19.
                          We travel not for trafficking alone,
                          By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
                          For lust of knowing what should not be known,
                          We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

                          Comment


                          • And the Navara, twin cab pickup. Less modded, actually from the look of it they just gave it a lick of green paint.

                            Lose the chrome body work, the silver alloys and the side step for gods sake .

                            No pic's of the single cab pickup. Plenty on the net somewhere .
                            Attached Files
                            We travel not for trafficking alone,
                            By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
                            For lust of knowing what should not be known,
                            We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

                            Comment


                            • The 7 seater pathfinders have a better rep than the crewcab/pickups however all versions need regular replacement of flywheel (DM type) and clutches,costs between 1000 to 2200 depending on who gets the gig.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by danno View Post
                                The 7 seater pathfinders have a better rep than the crewcab/pickups however all versions need regular replacement of flywheel (DM type) and clutches,costs between 1000 to 2200 depending on who gets the gig.
                                Have you tried putting 7 adults in a pathfinder lately? Its offroad ability is ideal for parking on the lawn outside the school while dropping the kids off, or even better, parking on the grass at a pony club event.
                                I understand it is also capable of driving on, and off of certain beaches with surfboards on the roof....
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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