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  1. #51
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    I'm with apod on this ... Why? I never had this shit to contend with. The biggest failing was with the introduction of the DPM uniform where shirts were allowed outside the trousers. All went down hill after that. Point on the old green shirts they wee issued short sleeved and jumpers worn over as required. NS was some what easier as rig of the day ashore was slapped into you ashore and at sea you wore what was required and were told what to wear and when
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Would you like some ....... stop taking this personal.It's not.
    Apod, Assumptions, personal attacks and contradictions. What you say in one post you deny in another. You say it is nothing personal and then you make several personal attacks, you say you are arguing the point and then attack the man. You make assumption after assumption and then argue as if these assumption are fact. Debate??!! - this is not a debate, this is a screaming fit from you. And yes, you are a moderator, so I assume this post won't last long but it is time someone pointed it out to you.

    You did attack me personally at several points. You questioned my abilities as an instructor and a soldier. what you are in favour of is idleness and laziness People like you... I cant see where anybody in their right mind... Would you like some ketchup with your chip mate and you have attempted to shout me down Sleeves down during winter soldier! . DON'T make personal attacks and then defend yourself by attacking me for taking personal attacks personally.

    The real debate (and this is debating so take notes) is whether sleeves up/down is correct based on the parameters you set = "duty of care". How having your sleeves up or down really affects you body temperature while in barracks, and with the layering system in play, is beyond me. I offered you an occasion where sleeves up would be "duty of care". There is no manual or instruction as to which is correct, merely the opinion of the NCO or Instructor as to what they consider to be "Duty of care". Both Sleeves up or down care both be considered correct based on the parameter of "Duty of Care". Going beyond that parameter, Sleeves Up/Down is detailed by the senior NCO within the unit as is his/her duty with higher instruction from Army Authorities (which in this case is extremely limited and vague), Laziness or personal style does not come into it, but obedience of orders. Going beyond that parameter again one gets into personal opinions of what the set down dress state should be as a hypothetical. Due to it being hypothetical, it is difficult for an answer to be right or wrong unless it goes in the face of facts (which in this case are limited). So it is down to personal opinion.

    Now that is debating - placing facts into a coherent argument stream without resorting to personal attacks, shouting down or snide remarks. Note I even used the term "one" to refer to people in general rather that the term "you" which can be mistaken for referring to you personally which was not the case in that sentence. Whether the substance of my argument/thesis is good enough to withstand your counter argument/anti-thesis is what debating is all about hopefully to either prove the thesis or anti-thesis correct or to arrive at a synthesis based on one or both of the debaters theses. The verbal diarrhoea that you have contributed which you believe amounts to coherent debate is typical of a knuckle dragging Neanderthal who considers "The Sun" to be high brow and deep deliberation of current issues - That last sentence was specifically and deliberately put in, without malice, to show you what constitutes a low brow, but acceptable debating attack on what was said (the first part of the sentence) against what is a highly personal and emotivating attack on the person (the second part of the sentence), this as you seem to have trouble understanding what constitutes acceptable content criticism versus unacceptable personal attacks.

    Yes, I have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to you. You have attacked me, make snide remarks about me, and questioned my abilities for no reason. You even distorted what I had said in order to attack me, either that or you didn't read it at all. And all under the guise of what you term "debate". I have made no assumptions about you, nor questioned your abilities (but have questioned your arguments) and tried to refrain from personal attacks. And if there were personal attacks on my part, then I assure you they were not intended as hurtful or derogatory (if they came across this way then I apologise) but merely to point out the fallacy of your argument and your strong arm approach to toward me personally and my argument. Your personal attacks on me, despite utterance to the contrary, have been deliberate and unacceptable.

    This is an discussion forum with a topic in hand - debate the topic.
    Last edited by madden; 17th August 2014 at 02:19.

  3. #53
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    In the interest of fairness I have reread all you previous post(bar the one you deleted) and my replies.Also in the interests of fairness and so you don't feel even more paranoid and aggreved than you do now i am stating on the record that NOBODY is going to remove your last post.Why??Because you seem to think I am some kind of tyrant here,(I assure you I am not but would be happy to hear why you think so) and will remove any comment that goes against mine.NOT the case.Also,and this has already been explained to you,I am debating you as a forum member NOT a MOD.So lets park that there.
    This thread started with a simple question.I responded and gave advice based on my own experience and knowledge of how things are done.You disagreed with my post.fair enough.You then sniped another members post with the comments about CELO vs CEFO.I called you out on that as I believed you were showing off and your comment came off as nitpicking,catty and pedantic.YOU then went nuclear and started throwing all kinds of accusations and complaints about me and showed that you seem to think I am somehow persecuting you.NOT THE CASE.YOU then deleted your response as you felt you would not get a fair crack of the whip.Again.NOT THE CASE.
    All done??Move on?? NO. My next post.....
    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    The BSM,CS and Pln Sgt's are the people who are supposed to decide dress policy and standards within a unit.Problem is if the BSM deffers to much to the Adjutant and doesn't take ownership themselves.Then you have a snag.Seen it before with some unit OC's directing mad ideas such as shirt sleeves up all year 'round.Some duty of care to the troops there

    Just because you don't like it personally doesn't mean it is wrong
    - I much prefer the "sleeves up all year round" SOP as it is far more practical and easier to work with with the layering system. To me the "Sleeve up, sleeves down" is a mad idea. Thought it was insane when I was a Private and still do - nearly the only guy walking around the barracks with sleeves down because my BS thought it was a super idea and made us "stand out" from everyone else (duty of care didn't come into it). Thank God my next BS knew it was kack and went with what the lads wanted (and the rest of the barracks was doing).
    I made a point about unit OC's not showing duty of care.You came back with YOUR personal opinion.Nowhere here did i direct anything towards you.

    As for Duty of care - that is what the layering system is for; You are in a warm room (and we all know how the Army loves to turn on the radiators full blast) and need to cool down, the short sleeves are great. You need to layer up - Barrack Jacket. Layer up again - Norwegian under the Barrack Jacket. Layer up yet again - smock. No matter how cold it gets, when you are layered up, you don't notice if you sleeves are up or down.

    But LS T-shirt with Shirt sleeves up, now that is a mess.

    Duty of care to me would be allowing people to strip down to short sleeves when they are overheating.

    Long sleeves - Some duty of care to the troops there
    You made some fair comments here but then attacked my previous point about duty of care with an eyes up to heaven.A personal attack that you could have left out.
    To be fair I then responded in kind and got shitty with you for getting shitty with me.My last comment was meant in jest however.Perhaps a smiley would have clarified that.


    I agree with you on the last - I said as much but you didn't bother reading what I said, assumed you knew what I said, assumed you knew better and blah, I see it every day. Young soldiers making fools of themselves by thinking they know better and assuming lot of stuff. You assumed I said I was in favour of idleness and laziness. Never said that, never implied it.
    The problem was you had implied it.And yes I attacked your statement as what I saw was excusing lazziness and poor standards.If I got the wrong end of the stick I apologise but i do see that attitude to such matters regularly and quite often it stems from the following...

    As for the rest of it - Yeah, I am all for what the Lads want. Got to look after the lads - that is what a good NCO does or should do. I don't like Long sleeves because it is impractical and, IMO, looks bad.

    "Leadership by appeasement" as a certain well known former NCOTW instructor would say.A good NCO does what is RIGHT weather it's popular with "the lads" or not.That's the burden placed upon us.I don't give a shite if johnny 3* wants his sleeves up in January because he can't be arsed to iron his shirt sleeves or wants to show off his guns.he will do as I tell him and I don't care how much of a prick he thinks I am.I get paid to do my job.End of.Now,having said all that if the same Pte came to me 20mins later with a problem I would go over and above to help him out. That's leadership and care.I treat my subordinates like i do my kids.Grip them when neccessary but me a caring dad the rest of the time.Kids/Young Pte's need and even if the wont admit it,like having boundaries.They know where the line is and how far they can push it
    Then again, Driflo in an office - never been that lazy bu if that is the standards you go by......
    I made a coherent argument why this could be neccessary and you attacked me again.if you re read you earlier post you stated " Duty of care to me would be to allow people to strip down to short sleeves when they are overheating".Contradicting yourself a bit there??

    As I said already (but you don't read what I say so just assume I said whatever you want me to say and we'll go with that !!!), thankfully my unit SOP is sleeves up all year round. I follow orders and unit SOP. If your unit SOP is sleeves down, then bravo. But mine isn't, thankfully. But you want me to break orders and do my own thing - and you question me on my standards?

    I take pride in my uniform, I keep myself to a high standard. If you want to throw accusations based on your owned flawed assumptions, then go ahead, it debases what you say which is rubbish anyway. I've never seen a clear order from the Army on the policy, rescinded or not. The only reason I have ever seen for Long sleeves is the "Look at me, I'm different and Special"

    I am not talking about overseas or on the ground where, yes, sleeves down make a lot of sense for various reasons. I'm talking in barracks - but then again you assumed I said differently and ....

    Actually, forget everything I said, You are going to assume whatever you want me to have said, so assume away.
    Again here you went off on a rant and attacked me again.I called you out and asked you take this to PM's.You don't want to do that.It is you that is debasing yourself.Not me.
    Contd......
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

    - Rob Reiner.

    "Yes he's an idiot with zero common sense,and no social skills,but he IS my son.I just hope he never goes into politics.He'd be a disaster.

    - Mary Anne Trump

    #unfollowtrump

  4. #54
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Contd...
    Quote Originally Posted by madden View Post
    Apod, Assumptions, personal attacks and contradictions. What you say in one post you deny in another. You say it is nothing personal and then you make several personal attacks, you say you are arguing the point and then attack the man. You make assumption after assumption and then argue as if these assumption are fact. Debate??!! - this is not a debate, this is a screaming fit from you. And yes, you are a moderator, so I assume this post won't last long but it is time someone pointed it out to you.

    You did attack me personally at several points. You questioned my abilities as an instructor and a soldier. what you are in favour of is idleness and laziness People like you... I cant see where anybody in their right mind... Would you like some ketchup with your chip mate and you have attempted to shout me down Sleeves down during winter soldier! . DON'T make personal attacks and then defend yourself by attacking me for taking personal attacks personally.



    Now that is debating - placing facts into a coherent argument stream without resorting to personal attacks, shouting down or snide remarks. Note I even used the term "one" to refer to people in general rather that the term "you" which can be mistaken for referring to you personally which was not the case in that sentence. Whether the substance of my argument/thesis is good enough to withstand your counter argument/anti-thesis is what debating is all about hopefully to either prove the thesis or anti-thesis correct or to arrive at a synthesis based on one or both of the debaters theses. The verbal diarrhoea that you have contributed which you believe amounts to coherent debate is typical of a knuckle dragging Neanderthal who considers "The Sun" to be high brow and deep deliberation of current issues - That last sentence was specifically and deliberately put in, without malice, to show you what constitutes a low brow, but acceptable debating attack on what was said (the first part of the sentence) against what is a highly personal and emotivating attack on the person (the second part of the sentence), this as you seem to have trouble understanding what constitutes acceptable content criticism versus unacceptable personal attacks.

    Yes, I have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to you. You have attacked me, make snide remarks about me, and questioned my abilities for no reason. You even distorted what I had said in order to attack me, either that or you didn't read it at all. And all under the guise of what you term "debate". I have made not assumptions about you, nor questioned your abilities (but have questioned your arguments) and tried to refrain from personal attacks. And if there were personal attacks on my part, then I assure you they were not intended as hurtful or derogatory (if they came across this way then I apologise) but merely to point out the fallacy of your argument and your strong arm approach to toward me personally and my argument. Your personal attacks on me, despite utterance to the contrary, have been deliberate and unacceptable.

    This is an discussion forum with a topic in hand - debate the topic.
    Deep breaths mate.You'll feel better.I have shown above why I attacked your Original post.It was YOU that made assumptions, made this personal and kept sniping at me.I merely responded in kind.I made coherent arguments but again,because you don't like my opinion,or me,you keep going off on rants and screaming persecution.I tried to be concilliatory but again you just want your soapbox.Fair enough.
    I have taken this as far as I am willing to go.Your problem with me is just that.Your problem.Deal with it.People who know me better here know I am not as you have tried to make me out to be.I will let them be the judge.

    PS: Please don't assume that because we have had a difference of opinion/argument that I will treat you any differently as a MOD going forward.I won't.But if you attack me i will bark back.Fair enough?
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

    - Rob Reiner.

    "Yes he's an idiot with zero common sense,and no social skills,but he IS my son.I just hope he never goes into politics.He'd be a disaster.

    - Mary Anne Trump

    #unfollowtrump

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  6. #55
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    Apod,

    Firstly note that most of my initial comments which you took offence to were merely repeats of what you had previously said towards me - repeated in order to show how you had made things personal and to ridicule your opinion that you were not in the wrong. The fact that you have taken offence to them in stunning given that it was you who uttered them first and you are taking offence to your own comments.

    Examples
    Apod: I see it every day.Young soldiers coming out.....
    Madden:I see it every day. Young soldiers making...

    Apod: So basically madden what you are in favour of is idleness and laziness....
    Madden: never been that lazy....

    Apod: some NCO's who don't like to enforce dress standards....
    Madden: the standards you go by......
    I have also attempted to remain on topic, my last post specifically referring to the topic and continuing my arguments on the issue. I don't think either of you last 2 posts even made mention of the topic but consisted almost exclusively of defending yourself and attacking me - completely dragging the thread off topic.

    The CELO/CEFO comment comment was not, imo, nitpicking,catty and pedantic - you merely saw it that way. But you are a moderator and that is your prerogative. I did not intend it to be like that and was extremely surprised at your reaction to it. As I said already, if it was seen as being that, then I apologise to the original poster. I made complaints to the moderators as to your comments, but then thought better of it and decided to move on as it was possible that my comment was viewed incorrectly despite no intention to be derogatory.

    However, the complaints that I made to the moderators were for moderators only as I would hope all complaints are treated with the confidentially that they deserve > If I had intended them for all and sundry to read, I would have posted them on an open forum. But I didn't. However you, using your powers as a moderator and breeching that confidentiality, have decided to use those comments to further your argument on an open forum. I note you only used those parts that suited you and did not mention the complaints in full including the parts where I withdrew my complaints due to my changed opinion that it was not worth getting annoyed over. Unfortunately I do not have copies of those complaints as they were to a "supposedly" confidential area of the forum but you obviously have and have no issue with using them to your own benefit.

    So forgive me if I look upon your comment of i am stating on the record that NOBODY is going to remove your last post or you seem to think I am some kind of tyrant here, I assure you I am not with EXTREME scepticism. I did make efforts to ensure that you would not delete or amend my post but am unable to prevent you from posting confidential information. I requested a fair chance of responding to your comments without you using and abusing your moderator privileges. It seems that is not possible.

    I have made efforts to further ensure that you do not amend or delete this post and I have made another complaint in relation to your conduct. This time I have kept a copy and am posting it here so that you cannot pick and choose what confidential information to reveal in the future:
    I believed that complaints to moderators were confidential. But I have seen these complaints being referred to in order to further an argument by a moderator. I no longer have access to those complaints but the moderator does and is using them make personal attacks against me. Am I incorrect in assuming that they are confidential? And if they are, will anything be done to censure the moderator involved?
    So I believe it is time to bow out of this exchange before you decide to pull out some nuclear option and delete/amend/ban/infract or whatever due to my disagreement with you that Long sleeves during winter a duty of care issue.
    Last edited by madden; 18th August 2014 at 00:01.

  7. #56
    Flanders Pidgeon Murderer Captain Edmund Blackadder's Avatar
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    Is it just me, or does anyone else think these two are SO going to ride... The unresolved sexual tension is killing me.
    Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.

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  9. #57
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Edmund Blackadder View Post
    Is it just me, or does anyone else think these two are SO going to ride... The unresolved sexual tension is killing me.
    I think you should get a shorter username so it doesn't hide the "go to latest post" button when using a mobile....
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  10. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain edmund blackadder View Post
    is it just me, or does anyone else think these two are so going to ride... The unresolved sexual tension is killing me.

    lol

  11. #59
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    Maybe it is time to give the whole thing a rest, move on and back onto topic?

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  13. #60
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Again.NOBODY is going to delete your post!!How many times does that have to be said FFS
    I responded to you as a fellow member NOT as a MOD.How many times does that have to be said??
    I have not abused my position as a MOD.I offered to take this to PM so we could keep this off the main forum and not divert the thread.You declined by continuing to respond here.
    I defended myself against your attacks both here and by other means.Simple as.If you don't like that.Tough.I don't answer to you.You seem determined to get a pound of flesh,and have the last word.Fine.Childish but fine.

    Now.Lets return to the topic.
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

    - Rob Reiner.

    "Yes he's an idiot with zero common sense,and no social skills,but he IS my son.I just hope he never goes into politics.He'd be a disaster.

    - Mary Anne Trump

    #unfollowtrump

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  15. #61
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    MOD:
    My belief here is that something was taken personally that wasn't meant personally which then gained momentum

    Back to the thread

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  17. #62
    Provost colonel decker's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    I think Madden in fairness should be allowed have the last word I for one am sick of this clown always jumping down your throat sending unwanted PMs etc,


    MOD: take it elsewhere, change of plan, take it to a months ban instead..while a permanent ban is discussed.( Turkey)
    Last edited by Turkey; 23rd August 2014 at 18:37.
    OK Smith it’s Colonel Decker. I hate it when a plan comes together. You’re surrounded. I want you and Peck and Baracus, to throw out your weapons, all the ration packs you stole and come out with your hands up. You have fifteen seconds.

  18. #63
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Ok on a related dress note, sleeves up or down aside, is it correct that head dress is not worn indoors in barracks unless instructing on a lesson?
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  19. #64
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    Yeah, no head dress indoors, Unless instructing so you can salute.
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

  20. #65
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Correct.And webbing is worn if conducting a weapons/skills lesson also.
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

    - Rob Reiner.

    "Yes he's an idiot with zero common sense,and no social skills,but he IS my son.I just hope he never goes into politics.He'd be a disaster.

    - Mary Anne Trump

    #unfollowtrump

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    Head dress worn in doors for lots of reasons guys

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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    is it correct that head dress is not worn indoors in barracks unless instructing on a lesson?
    Surprised with answers on this one.

    I always wear head dress indoors (in barracks only, civvie building are generally a different story) except when sitting or relaxing (eg dining hall, lecture hall, Mess etc.). It is the done thing around here. Even remember getting chewed out once for not wearing it indoors when I was not sitting.

    Another thing done differently to Apod (not right or wrong, just different).
    Last edited by madden; 23rd August 2014 at 01:16.

  23. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by madden View Post
    Surprised with answers on this one.

    I always wear head dress indoors (in barracks only, civvie building are generally a different story) except when sitting or relaxing (eg dining hall, lecture hall, Mess etc.). It is the done thing around here. Even remember getting chewed out once for not wearing it indoors when I was not sitting.

    Another thing done differently to Apod (not right or wrong, just different).
    What Brigade are you in? I served in a number of different units in the South and while they done many things differently, the one thing they had in common was beret off indoors, unless doing COFD or weapon lesson.
    I don't see what bringing Apod into it has to do with anything.

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    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    AI A9 part 1,para 102:
    "All personnel wearing uniform will ensure that they are wearing the appropriate headdress at all times. The sole provision for the removal of such headdress will be whilst indoors and during ceremonial occasions when ordered."
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

    - Rob Reiner.

    "Yes he's an idiot with zero common sense,and no social skills,but he IS my son.I just hope he never goes into politics.He'd be a disaster.

    - Mary Anne Trump

    #unfollowtrump

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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    What Brigade are you in? I served in a number of different units in the South and while they done many things differently, the one thing they had in common was beret off indoors, unless doing COFD or weapon lesson.
    I don't see what bringing Apod into it has to do with anything.
    It is none of your business what Bde I am in. And my experience of No.1 Bde disagrees vastly with yours. But every barracks/unit/Sub-unit is different.

    As for the Apod reference, given our previous encounter earlier in this thread which wasn't exactly many posts ago, I was attempting to disagree with him on this particular matter without showing any malice, thereby attempting to separate this particular matter (berets indoors) from the previous (sleeves up/down) and start with a new slate. Now, what business it is of yours, I don't know. If Apod wishes to take issue with my attempts at conciliation, then I am sure he is well capable of doing it himself and doesn't need someone else to go sticking their nose into something they don't understand and dragging a thread way off topic AGAIN. If you want to make a comment on the TOPIC, go ahead. But if you intention is to attack me for some unknown reasoning of yours, then do it with a little less bumbling.

    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    AI A9 part 1,para 102:
    "All personnel wearing uniform will ensure that they are wearing the appropriate headdress at all times. The sole provision for the removal of such headdress will be whilst indoors and during ceremonial occasions when ordered."
    Yes, I am aware of the provision, badly written as it is (I have to question do they understand what the word "Sole" means when they then give 2 provisions!), And my previous comment still stands - it/they are provisions, not directives. Keeping on topic and referring to the original question from Morpheus is it correct that head dress is not worn indoors in barracks unless instructing on a lesson, I would say that it depends on unit SOPs and barrack custom but is not SPECIFIED anywhere. A quick look at my unit dress SOPs and I can say that it is not specified there either. But barrack custom where I am is for it to be usually worn indoors but it is not a hard rule - I do wear it but never pull anyone for not doing so indoors. But the beret is generally worn indoors (except in the circumstances I specified earlier) and my experience is based on being in several barracks and differing parts of the Army (except for the Military College as stated hereunder). I am not saying other peoples experiences are right or wrong, just different.

    Then again, every barracks is different despite it being a small army.

    As for the Military College, Parts of it have a rule that berets are not to be worn indoors or out (too many officers = too much saluting by people of all ranks).
    Last edited by madden; 24th August 2014 at 23:44.

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    I suggest you take a serious chill pill buddy. AI A9 is specific enough for me, if you want something better go find a rock and I can get someone to write it in stone just for you.

  29. Likes DeV, hptmurphy liked this post
  30. #72
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    I must say Madden that it must be awfully fun to serve in your unit. Headress on even when indoors,sleeves up even in winter.Yup.Lots of fun.

    As an aside can anybody list the Bks around the country where it is SOP to wear berets indoors at all times??
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

    - Rob Reiner.

    "Yes he's an idiot with zero common sense,and no social skills,but he IS my son.I just hope he never goes into politics.He'd be a disaster.

    - Mary Anne Trump

    #unfollowtrump

  31. Likes The real Jack liked this post
  32. #73
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    The bigger the barracks the bigger the bullshit so Collins would be the only candidate there apod but they take them off!
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  33. Thanks apod thanked for this post
  34. #74
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Yeah.I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of units don't insist on their CS's,Coy clerks,Signallers,medics,pay clerks,CQ's,Staff officers,Ord room staff,stores personnel,or unit OC sitting in their offices wearing headress. Even in the more anal of units like the old 4BN or CTD(S)I never came across it.
    Anybody from the the other Bdes come across it?
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

    - Rob Reiner.

    "Yes he's an idiot with zero common sense,and no social skills,but he IS my son.I just hope he never goes into politics.He'd be a disaster.

    - Mary Anne Trump

    #unfollowtrump

  35. #75
    CQMS
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    PMSL here.
    Blokes fighting over what way to wear their sleeves and when u do and dont wear your hat!!!!!!!

    This site gets funnier everytime i look at it, truly!!!!
    hedons have more fun.

  36. Thanks holdfast thanked for this post

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