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  • #46
    from recall the Light Cav concept has come out of the Brigade Reece Force we've been using in Afghanistan
    Again this was the envisaged role of the LTAV while in use with the Cavalry to enable them to operate in the CTR role witha smaller vehicle than MOWAG but again these concepts often vanish in the mists of time when reality checks in.

    I can't comment on anything post 2008/2009 as I was on the way out at that point and my interest was begining to wain.

    I do have the whole concept of OPs thing on file from the early noughties, that which was being sold by the Cav School as it was.

    Jumps off the page that the cavalry requirement was not a consideration at the time of the report and no thought had been given to replacing the AML fleet.
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 11 September 2014, 15:25.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • #47
      Originally posted by DeV View Post
      Until you are patrolling an urban area/population centre, have to engage with the population, have to leave the vehicles (be it a CIMIC op or a CTR)
      better make sure you buy something with doors then...

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      • #48
        As a matter of interest - what will we now do with all of the old Turrets we replace with RWS?
        "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
        "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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        • #49
          they with either be stored with due care and attention or they'll be left out and will rot and will only be fit for holding plants.Pick one option;-)

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          • #50
            Could they develop a indigenous armoured car using these turrets. like the old peerless turrets where reused during the 40s

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            • #51
              Digressing slightly, many years ago, my then unit (a Field Ambulance) got a call from the head blanket stacker at a stores depot asking why the hell were we ordering a turret for a Scorpion Tank. Somebody had got some NATO stock numbers seriously wrong on a form was the eventual explanation. Apparently it was just ready for dispatch to us, so our stores bloke asked if we could have it anyway, to get a very curt "No!".
              'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
              'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
              Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
              He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
              http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Stevo768 View Post
                Could they develop a indigenous armoured car using these turrets. like the old peerless turrets where reused during the 40s
                Remember Timoney?!?

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                • #53
                  I've been torn to pieces on here before for suggesting that Ireland could develop an indigenous armoured vehicle.

                  Shorts Brothers in Belfast did it with the Shorland...a huge success...until they sold the manufacturing rights to TENIX.

                  RUC Transport Branch developed and evolved their own armoured landrovers...which were only recently replaced by something made in Scotland...mainly because that branch of the Police no longer have the R&D funding they had before.

                  Somehow it was cheaper to put it out to tender.

                  Had they had the cash...and the time...and the will of management...they could have come up with something state of the art IMHO.

                  Ireland developed and manufactured the Timoney series of APC's as Tempest says above...if the political and financial backing was available theres no reason why Ireland couldn't produce an indigenous vehicle suitable to Ireland's home and overseas commitments.
                  Last edited by spider; 13 September 2014, 01:08.
                  'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                  • #54
                    Was the Timoney project in the 70s and 80 successful I know that only a handful was in service at any one time kind of a prototype.

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                    • #55
                      Singaporean Terrex and Taiwanese CM-32 "Yunpaw".

                      That is all.

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                      • #56
                        You mean the Timoney designed APCs?

                        You'll find anything designed in Taiwan is designed for Asian people. Even if it was designed by an Irish company.
                        It does nothing a Mowag doesn't do.
                        They needed a large run to make it cost effective. Ireland was never going to be able to do that. There are too many companies in Europe building similar types, and our nearest neighbours to the east and west were never going to buy off us.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                        • #57
                          Timoney probably made a greater contribution to armour development by it's undercarriage and drivetrain work than by building a simple armoured box and it's products are also on many fire engines worldwide. Grom is right; Ireland can't make automotive equipment like cars/trucks/armour/aircraft/guns,etc,etc on the scale that others can partially because of the legacy of a small industrial base and when you have a national market of perhaps a few dozen vehicles, it's not really worth the effort. For example, building guns is not beyond Irish manufacturing but it would hardly be worth the effort unless the DF bought them and we entered the world market. It's like our relationship with aircraft building; our Northern neighbours succeeded because they had the industrial base and the mass market (the UK military and the larger airline market and a couple of wars to boost sales) and an ongoing part in commercial aircraft production. By contrast, Ireland has long had a very good base of aircraft overhaul and repair that is basically gone from NI but we probably could not start aircraft production like Brazil did, unless we combined the output, skills and resources of NI and RoI.

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                          • #58
                            To have a combined effort is a nice idea I don't think it will happen. If it was maybe timoney could produce the undercarriage/drives and some northern engineering company could make the armoured shell. There's lots of heavy engineering companies north especially in co Tyrone who make a very high percentage of the worlds tracked quarry plant.

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                            • #59
                              Was the Timoney project in the 70s and 80 successful I know that only a handful was in service at any one time kind of a prototype.
                              Belgium bought the license and built 100 vehicle based on the Mark 6, Later sold to Mexico.

                              Army Guide - information about the main battle tanks, armoured vehicles and armament of the land forces and also the information concerning other army subjects - BDX, Wheeled armoured personnel carrier, Armoured Vehicles


                              Vickers in the UK built the Vickers Valkyr prototype which was a nice looking beats and that prototype went up for sale recently on the collectors market.



                              Tanzania developed a 4 x 4 turreted vehicle that never went commercial



                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                              • #60
                                Both the Vicker's V and the BDX were pretty decent vehicles. The Vicker's V was in the running to provide the BA with a wheeled APC. Lost out to Saxon. The 4 x 4, and 6 x 6 were interesting variations.

                                If funding had been available and the will and the vision had been there to take the basic Timoney further who knows what the DF could be cutting about in these days. Home grown armour? Would really only have been viable if overseas sales were allowed.

                                Having said that the below link to Dail question time gives an indication of the difficulty encountered when dealing with people who make a living out of being difficult and generally don't have a clue. Related to the Disposal for spares of two Timony prototypes and the question of overseas sales.




                                Bit more on the Vicker's V

                                Army Guide - information about the main battle tanks, armoured vehicles and armament of the land forces and also the information concerning other army subjects - Valkyr, Wheeled armoured personnel carrier, Armoured Vehicles
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by FMP; 14 September 2014, 07:47.
                                We travel not for trafficking alone,
                                By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
                                For lust of knowing what should not be known,
                                We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

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