White Paper - When is it due to be published?

[Stevo768]

What about each Brigade having APC Coy within the cavalry squadrons?. Maintained by CAV but Administered by a Cadre from Infantry.

[na grohmiti]

What about each Brigade having APC Coy within the cavalry squadrons?. Maintained by CAV but Administered by a Cadre from Infantry.

Wouldn't work. It was bad enough when Infantry had the mowags and the Cav had to learn how to use them.
That was awkward.

[hptmurphy]

Of course there may be times when you want your vehicles locally

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/jun2004/shannon_demo_26_30.jpg

Or for an ex in Kilworth or wherever.

We have to get over this multiple location army. Reduce costs by collecting all the existing units in one location, start again and build what it takes to house an 8000 strong army in one location.

The country is small enough and the roads good enough to deploy as require. Mowags have proven this with country wide exercises on an annual basis.

Yep it means barrack closures and relocation of people, its not going to happen overnight, but it would mean we could provide decent housing and accomodation on site for the duration of careers.

[Flamingo]

We have to get over this multiple location army. Reduce costs by collecting all the existing units in one location, start again and build what it takes to house an 8000 strong army in one location.

The country is small enough and the roads good enough to deploy as require. Mowags have proven this with country wide exercises on an annual basis.

Yep it means barrack closures and relocation of people, its not going to happen overnight, but it would mean we could provide decent housing and accomodation on site for the duration of careers.

A good idea, but where would be the best place to locate it?

[ropebag]

A good idea, but where would be the best place to locate it?

based on our experiences - next to a large training area, easy access (not neccesarily next to, but easy access to..) to the logs hubs of air and sea, and somewhere people will be happy to spend the greater part of their careers.

on the principle, i cannot stress how effective we've found the super garrison concept, the number of people its freed up from running the umpteen number of individual barracks has to be seen to be believed. its also a damn sight easier to get any type of effective training done, because i can drive to Mech Inf, Light Inf, Armour or combat engineer units in 5 minutes, and another Artillery regiment in 20...

[na grohmiti]

If only the Glen was closer to the Curragh, and the curragh was nearer to the coast...

[spider pig]

A good idea, but where would be the best place to locate it?

Its so easy to suggest that when you've done your time and don't have to relocate your life. No offence intended

At same time I can see it happening and possibly being effective. To me it wouldn't be the worst,the curragh not being far but for others it would cause havoc. Its not as if the df supply family housing or even single living in that's anywhere up to standard.

[expat01]

I imagine the biggest problem is that you would have to provide married quarters for several thousand and that means the location would become a new town. Still, while I see lots of advantages of having the bulk of the army in the curragh ( really, where else?) You would likely need one permanent base in the vicinity of the border, the navy will still be in cork, and have fun moving the air corps

[hptmurphy]

A good idea, but where would be the best place to locate it?

Green field site, take your pick but it must be served by major roadways, have proximity to a major airport and close access to the sea.

Its not as if the df supply family housing or even single living in that's anywhere up to standard.

If you are starting from scratch you can build to an acceptable standard.

Its so easy to suggest that when you've done your time and don't have to relocate your life. No offence intended

It can be phased in , would probably take 10 - 15 years to become fully effective, so those people joining next week would actually know where they are going to be. Those within the first to fifth year of their contract won't be affected as most would be gone by the time it comes on stream.

We probably have the only army in the world that allows its people to be born, reared and die in the same time, and its really only in the other ranks. Far too inflexible, but thats another argument.

Should the DF be reduced to One brigade in time relocation to a central location will probably come about by default. I reckon I will see it in my life time.

for others it would cause havoc.

Not if the benefits outweighed the negatives.

[jack08]

'Should the DF be reduced to One brigade'

What is people's obsession with a One Bde? A one Bde structure would be a complete disaster for the DF. We now live in a world, where the DF has to give product back to the nation. Going to one base will be the complete opposite of that. We have to have the ablility to create a DF/Defence sector. Being based in the Curragh is not the way.

Going to one base will only lead to DF cuts.

[Laners]

Somehow i just can't see the Naval Service relocating to the Curragh .

[GoneToTheCanner]

Nothing preventing the NS establishing a base in Foynes or Dublin or points further North,on either of the major coasts. It has to be severely restrictive to insist on one base only. As for the Don,the argument against relocating some, part or all to Shannon or Cork or Galway or even Sligo was lost a long time ago. I would regard cramming all of the DF into the Curragh as wrong. The DF is it's own worst enemy when it comes to the use of the Glen and Kilworth. Build proper training camps there, with decent full-time cover for permanently stationed guns and AFVs there,instead of spending huge amounts of time,money and energy trailing to and fro along some of the country's narrowest roads in Mowags and the rest . If you stationed a sample of the Mowags, mortar, LTAV, 105 and javelin and relevant small arms, you'd pretty much have all of the syllabus for pretty much all of the courses ever required,on hand,no wasted transit time,no wasted fuel. Move the people to the equipment, not the other way around.........mentally,the DF still has a garrison mentality and people don't want to move, at all, ever, once they have established themselves, partly because the DF favours officers when it comes to relocation, in terms of time required and expenses and because relocation has also been used as a punishment. For all of it's combined intellect,the DF still does stupid things to good people.

[na grohmiti]

It is in No Way restrictive having the NS based in one location, when that location is the nearest port to the Normal AO. There is no need to have a 2nd base, given the size of the fleet. Anything it needs, stores wise can be trucked to whatever port around the coast the ship is operating near.
Ships don't need a homeport.

[hptmurphy]

'Should the DF be reduced to One brigade'

What is people's obsession with a One Bde? A one Bde structure would be a complete disaster for the DF. We now live in a world, where the DF has to give product back to the nation. Going to one base will be the complete opposite of that. We have to have the ablility to create a DF/Defence sector. Being based in the Curragh is not the way.

Going to one base will only lead to DF cuts.

The replication of structures in a relatively small force is wasteful and not cost effective. The need to have similiarily qualified person hold identical posts in several locations across the country in relatively small groupings is again wasteful.
Given its not a service industry and has limited function other than providing employment, the multiple dispersal and replication serves no purpose in a country that you drive the length of in a matter of hours.

We now live in a world, where the DF has to give product back to the nation.

All its reasons for the dispersal have gone, time to consolidate.

[sofa]

Maybe we do need a gerrison deployment or at least three large bases. Remember Jarry's surrender monkeys have not gone away, they are still held together due to business interests, drink, rebel songs, and an delusion about being the real government or something.