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Thread: 84mm upgrade

  1. #1
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    84mm upgrade

    I know we have the heavy M2 version (14.2kg) and we got new sights and ammo a few years ago but maybe it was a good job we didn't go for the M3 (9.7kg) then.... there is now an even lighter M4 (6.7kg)

    http://www.janes.com/article/43759/s...carl-gustaf-m4

    http://www.saabgroup.com/en/Land/Wea...arl-Gustaf-M4/

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    Brigadier General
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    The M3 is in service.

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    The M3 is in service.
    Yes but not with the DF

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Yes but not with the DF
    The M3 is in service with the DF.

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    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Rhodes is 100% correct.It is used by units on overseas service.The older weapons in the home units are now considered training stock.
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    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Nice they didn't advertise that

  11. #7
    Sergeant Major
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Rhodes is 100% correct.It is used by units on overseas service.The older weapons in the home units are now considered training stock.
    Some of the M2's were first fired in the 1960's!

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northie View Post
    Some of the M2's were first fired in the 1960's!
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    Damn that looks sweet!

  15. #10
    C/S FMP's Avatar
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    Very nice indeed.

    Always did like the old 84, heavy but a great bit of kit. And flexible, unlike its replacement LAW 80 which was a pile of one shot throw away rubbish. When the BA got rid of the 84 in the mid 90's it was your typical political knee jerk reaction to the question "Where's it made and can it defeat modern MBT's with ERA"? Of course at the time the answer was no, it cant and its made in Sweden. Cant have that thought the establishment, so we bought something made a bit closer to London that proved to be totally useless and was scrapped after GW I, more or less.

    In fairness I can understand the mentality of the time, the enemy was still the USSR and we were all set to take on the Russian hordes in their MBT's as they charged through the Black Forest. But the decision to get rid of 84 completely was wrong. There was nothing at all wrong with the weapon (heavy but Mk 3 sorted that) it was the ammo and Bofors have that well and truly sorted that as well. See attached.

    The ability to fire smoke, illum, HE, Canister, Anti Structure, Tandem warhead AT rounds etc. etc. from a single man-portable weapon,,,,,,,priceless. Beats the hell out of firing off 70K worth of Javelin in top attack mode just to give yer man a sore head, but when you have nothing else,,,,,,what are ya going to do!!??
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    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    One of the lads in my section - army reserve private - has just completed the 84 course. Seriously envious of him. Great to see these courses being offered to those who can in the RDF. they were told all of the above but fired the older weapon for training. he fired illum smoke and one other round that wasnt HE.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    One of the lads in my section - army reserve private - has just completed the 84 course. Seriously envious of him. Great to see these courses being offered to those who can in the RDF. they were told all of the above but fired the older weapon for training. he fired illum smoke and one other round that wasnt HE.
    Did a Command 84mm course myself many moons ago. Was run in tandem with a 60mm mortar course, run by 20 Inf Bn
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  20. #13
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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  22. #14
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Interesting that there is no backblast from it. And it’s got to be cheaper than Javelin.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
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    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
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    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    how does a rocket not have a backblast is it elastic bands ?
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  25. #16
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    how does a rocket not have a backblast is it elastic bands ?
    Reading both articles, it seems to be a fully enclosed tube that’s loaded into the CG, and it’s a slow launch system (whatever that entails).

    The GCGM round is packaged in a cylindrical canister, which is loaded into the Carl-Gustaf launcher. With an all-up weight of 6.8 kg, the round features a SAL seeker that leverages developments from Raytheon Missile Systems' 40 mm Pike guided munition and other systems across its portfolio, advanced electronics also developed by Raytheon, a multi-purpose tandem warhead developed in-house by Saab, and an improved, near smokeless/low launch signature rocket motor system, also delivered by Saab.

    But they are quite definite that it can be fired in enclosed spaces.

    The new precision round can also be fired from inside an enclosed room. Meaning, a soldier or Marine operating the system can fire from the safety of a room, window, or behind cover without the fear of backblast causing injury or harm.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
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  26. #17
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    A slow launch system involves a kind of a two-stage burn so that the first part of the burn of the propellant begins, has a timed burn and ignites a second stage propellant which creates the gases that push the projectile out of the gun. It all happens inside the cartridge and the two parts of the propellant are seperated by a disc with a hole in it. The M79 cartridge is an example of one; when they were developing it, they used one charge, like a shotgun shell and the recoil was too hard for the firers so they created a two-stage round which gave a tolerable recoil and still allowed a decent range for the projectile. The modern German Armbrust also claims that it can be safely fired indoors.

  27. #18
    Recruit Poiuyt's Avatar
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    Or could be similar to the Javelin - a small blast fires the missile out of the tube and then the main rocket engages once it is clear. If you look at a Javeline being fired, there is very little backblast.

  28. #19
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The AT4CS has reduced back blast meaning you can fire it indoors.

    Not sure if Javelin can be fired indoors but the main motor doesn’t fire until it is away from the tube.

  29. #20
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    Some modern weapons of this kind have a backblast device that breaks up into small particles of plastic or foam and are ejected as part of the exhaust gases to counteract the weight of fired shot, to the extent that they can be fired indoors (but you'd still want to have eye and ear protection and you will get coated in dust), as long as you have a window open or some other way of venting the dust cloud.

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