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  • #46
    e lads going on exercise,ITs and Operational duties with holes in the soles of their boots and worn out s
    theres the difference, the army go to work to train, the navy go to work to do a specific job, hence the tgear has to be right

    DPM or not!
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • #47
      Every time you change something with a production machine be it colours or whatever you have a certain amount of waste/downtime and that has a cost (even if it is only 0.5%) and guess what, that is passed into customer.

      Printing in 3/4 colours on an IR absorbing fabric is going to be expensive, than a single colour on the same fabric.

      The initial run to equip everyone in that NS would probably be similar to the annual run of the Irish pattern DPM.

      It is absolutely obvious that the NS needs a different uniform from Irish pattern DPM. But there is absolutely no reason for a naval pattern DPM, what are they suppose to blend in with?:
      The ship? They're grey!
      The Sea? If they are in it there's something wrong!
      A target they have boarded? Boarding crews wear dry suits!

      A NS pattern DPM is not required and would be a waste of money (our money!).

      If the point is to make it unique, eh it still would be if it was blue!

      You can understand issuing the Irish pattern DPM if they are overseas, on courses with FTXs.
      But for the range? LFTT fair enough but the normal tables!
      Duties on the base? In Collins fair enough but Haulbowline!

      If what is surely there is not up to the job, replace it (I have no issue with that)

      If a blue version (possibly with some white accessories) of the Irish pattern DPM kit is suitable for the NS purposes - excellent (there would be cost savings).
      If a few design changes are required (say velcro instead of buttons on the pockets) - grand.
      If it's not suitable find something else

      I also assume it is this kind of uniform we're talking about?:

      Last edited by DeV; 6 October 2014, 23:46.

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      • #48
        If the material was considered safe and durable you could even buy off the shelf from someone like Arktis if you wanted.

        Thermal underwear
        White or blue tshirt/dryflow
        Blue shirt with INS, name tab, rank markings etc
        Blue Lightweight norge
        Blue Jumper (maybe) with INS, name, rank etc
        Blue barracks jacket type with INS, name, rank etc
        Look at having a smock or wet gear (Arktis W/P as standard)
        Blue trousers (Arktis W/P as standard)

        As I said previously, if you wanted to you could put reflective strips on the arms and legs and give the option of a high vis "Navy" on the chest/back (like the boarding gear)
        Last edited by DeV; 7 October 2014, 00:06.

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        • #49
          A NS pattern DPM is not required and would be a waste of money (our money!).
          You're getting way too hung up on the DPM side of things!! The Naval service needs new uniforms...the current pants especially are utter cat. Most lads commenting here including yourself, I assume, have no idea what life at sea is like, the daily routine or the work done. Try getting through a month patrol with only 2 uniforms working 16-17 hour days it's so far removed from the army it's a waste of time comparing the two...1 patrol and your gear is in a sh*theap, then they expect you to get a year out of them!! I couldn't care less if they decide on pink DPM with tinsel around the edges to be honest, as long as my ass isn't hanging out of my pants after a month!!

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          • #50
            NS circa 2015

            Last edited by The real Jack; 7 October 2014, 08:05.
            Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by DeV View Post

              If the point is to make it unique, eh it still would be if it was blue!


              http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...8&d=1306078330
              But that's just it, the current uniform is not unique, and no variation of blue will be.
              It is the same uniform as worn by firemen, customs, coast guard, some scout troops, some courier companies, and any service provider who decide to go with the Portwest blue option when choosing workwear for its staff.
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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              • #52




                This would suit.
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                  But that's just it, the current uniform is not unique, and no variation of blue will be.
                  It is the same uniform as worn by firemen, customs, coast guard, some scout troops, some courier companies
                  In fairness, if you drive up and have Sam Beckett parked out back you're not going to be mistaken for a fireman or courier
                  An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                    But that's just it, the current uniform is not unique, and no variation of blue will be...
                    'corporate identity' is not needed abord ship in the normal working environment, we all know that - because there's no other fcuker around to display this 'corporate identity' to!

                    an NS brand is needed when posing for photos on the quayside with €100m worth of crack with every other state agency trying to stick its oar in to get the funding, err.. i mean credit. a simple, and not-deeply-stupid blue/grey/black DPM option is to simply to sew four, eight inch high letters in white fabric onto the front of the body armour spelling out the word 'NAVY'...

                    if the NS needs a practical working uniform then by all means buy the RN's Blue PCS working uniform, but don't go down the USN and RAN's idiot route of an expensive, naval DPM uniform that costs a fortune and spends its life being ridiculed - not to mention modified, expensively, because the idea of having people wearing camouflaged gear inside the machinery spaces of a darkened ship turns out to be as dumb as fcuking pork.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by mooman View Post
                      A NS pattern DPM is not required and would be a waste of money (our money!).
                      You're getting way too hung up on the DPM side of things!! The Naval service needs new uniforms...the current pants especially are utter cat. Most lads commenting here including yourself, I assume, have no idea what life at sea is like, the daily routine or the work done. Try getting through a month patrol with only 2 uniforms working 16-17 hour days it's so far removed from the army it's a waste of time comparing the two...1 patrol and your gear is in a sh*theap, then they expect you to get a year out of them!! I couldn't care less if they decide on pink DPM with tinsel around the edges to be honest, as long as my ass isn't hanging out of my pants after a month!!
                      I've said a number of times if the NS kit isn't up to the job it should be replaced
                      It is the Naval DPM suggestion I am against

                      Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                      But that's just it, the current uniform is not unique, and no variation of blue will be.
                      It is the same uniform as worn by firemen, customs, coast guard, some scout troops, some courier companies, and any service provider who decide to go with the Portwest blue option when choosing workwear for its staff.
                      http://www.imagerepository.org/broch.../en/index.html
                      Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                      'corporate identity' is not needed abord ship in the normal working environment, we all know that - because there's no other fcuker around to display this 'corporate identity' to!

                      an NS brand is needed when posing for photos on the quayside with €100m worth of crack with every other state agency trying to stick its oar in to get the funding, err.. i mean credit. a simple, and not-deeply-stupid blue/grey/black DPM option is to simply to sew four, eight inch high letters in white fabric onto the front of the body armour spelling out the word 'NAVY'...

                      if the NS needs a practical working uniform then by all means buy the RN's Blue PCS working uniform, but don't go down the USN and RAN's idiot route of an expensive, naval DPM uniform that costs a fortune and spends its life being ridiculed - not to mention modified, expensively, because the idea of having people wearing camouflaged gear inside the machinery spaces of a darkened ship turns out to be as dumb as fcuking pork.
                      I do see the point about branding which is why I suggested the IDF/INS branding, the high vis Navy like the boarding treams wear, the reflective parts to the uniform.

                      You could get it in black, blue or grey.

                      You could have the big tricolour on the sleeves, you put your branch/unit flash on the other arm with Velcro, you have a beret/suitably branded hat on, etc

                      You could say the same about the white shirt and suit for NS officers and SNCOs as No1s.
                      Last edited by DeV; 7 October 2014, 12:08.

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                      • #56
                        So the navy need new togs.
                        Has to be done? Right so.
                        The idea of DPM is completely negated by having it in colours that will stick out anywhere except on a floating body, but might make financial sense (only) if all that is being done is to insert a new set of colours onto the existing pattern which is printed on the existing material, AND if it is not cheaper to simply dye a batch into plain blue/navy/grey/whateveryerhaving. In that case, job done and who cares?

                        If you need a different cloth from what the army have, then adding DPM in shades of blue is just vanity. For The George. But in terms of cost, probably a tiny addition to ordering the new cloth in the first place. Silly, avoidable, but not going to break the bank. And probably no more expensive than sourcing great big INS/NAVY badges to stick on the damned things.
                        As for batch runs...I predict an increase in naval service numbers in the next few years.
                        Last edited by expat01; 7 October 2014, 15:57.

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                        • #57
                          Would really like to see the design of the new Navy DPM, I really hope they get it right. Strictly copying the army but with navy colour might look terrible. A new modern uniform for the navy is essential though.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                            Boarding suit?

                            A boarding suit as you call it is a drysuit. Under it is worn a onesie, known as a wolly bear. If you try catching lines and hauling ropes in that kit heat exhaustion will have you on your back in minutes.
                            My bad.Not having had the privelge to serve in both green and blue branches of our fine DF I referred to the item by it's generic name.However can you show me where I suggested using a boarding suit for deck tasks??I will save you the trouble.I didn't.

                            Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                            Lads 2 things:

                            1. Its only a proposal, nothing has been decided.

                            2. The thinking behind it is to save money long term. i.e. not to be issuing kit out every two mins. This new kit is going to be made to last. The design yes will be a branding as such, but isnt that a good thing in the long run to have commonality with the rest of the DF.
                            How is having a bespoke DPM specific to the NS which is only good for wear in certain limited occasions
                            A/ going to save money,
                            B/ Going increase commonality with the rest of the DF(who won't be wearing it)??

                            Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                            theres the difference, the army go to work to train, the navy go to work to do a specific job, hence the tgear has to be right

                            DPM or not!
                            We train to carry out our assigned tasks. ATCP/ATCA and PSO are not training.We train to be able to carry out those tasks which we do on a weekly basis.All of which are specific jobs.

                            Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            If the material was considered safe and durable you could even buy off the shelf from someone like Arktis if you wanted.

                            Thermal underwear
                            White or blue tshirt/dryflow
                            Blue shirt with INS, name tab, rank markings etc
                            Blue Lightweight norge
                            Blue Jumper (maybe) with INS, name, rank etc
                            Blue barracks jacket type with INS, name, rank etc
                            Look at having a smock or wet gear (Arktis W/P as standard)
                            Blue trousers (Arktis W/P as standard)

                            As I said previously, if you wanted to you could put reflective strips on the arms and legs and give the option of a high vis "Navy" on the chest/back (like the boarding gear)
                            Their was a whole powerpoint presentation on the NS dress around 2012 with the proposed GDR and the various other rigs.The layer system was included along with ALL the other bells and whistles mentioned above.Wasn't there a NS smock on issue circa 2001/2.Very similar to the army smock but in navy.What happened to that item for duties etc??
                            Originally posted by mooman View Post
                            A NS pattern DPM is not required and would be a waste of money (our money!).
                            You're getting way too hung up on the DPM side of things!! The Naval service needs new uniforms...the current pants especially are utter cat. Most lads commenting here including yourself, I assume, have no idea what life at sea is like, the daily routine or the work done. Try getting through a month patrol with only 2 uniforms working 16-17 hour days it's so far removed from the army it's a waste of time comparing the two...1 patrol and your gear is in a sh*theap, then they expect you to get a year out of them!! I couldn't care less if they decide on pink DPM with tinsel around the edges to be honest, as long as my ass isn't hanging out of my pants after a month!!
                            100% agree.By all means increase the quality,durability and scale of issue if neccessary.But a bespoke DPM that serves no purpose other than corporate identity??
                            Waste of money.Simple as.

                            BTW: I am starting to believe this is all a ballhop as their is no tender for such anywhere on E tenders.
                            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by apod View Post
                              My bad.Not having had the privelge to serve in both green and blue branches of our fine DF I referred to the item by it's generic name.However can you show me where I suggested using a boarding suit for deck tasks??I will save you the trouble.I didn't.


                              How is having a bespoke DPM specific to the NS which is only good for wear in certain limited occasions
                              A/ going to save money,
                              B/ Going increase commonality with the rest of the DF(who won't be wearing it)??


                              We train to carry out our assigned tasks. ATCP/ATCA and PSO are not training.We train to be able to carry out those tasks which we do on a weekly basis.All of which are specific jobs.


                              Their was a whole powerpoint presentation on the NS dress around 2012 with the proposed GDR and the various other rigs.The layer system was included along with ALL the other bells and whistles mentioned above.Wasn't there a NS smock on issue circa 2001/2.Very similar to the army smock but in navy.What happened to that item for duties etc??


                              100% agree.By all means increase the quality,durability and scale of issue if neccessary.But a bespoke DPM that serves no purpose other than corporate identity??
                              Waste of money.Simple as.

                              BTW: I am starting to believe this is all a ballhop as their is no tender for such anywhere on E tenders.
                              Personnel who work in the base on their rotation in, personnel on duty, on their normal days work whilst the ship is on self maintainance, personnel on board ship on non boarding ops will all wear this kit. So it will be worn 85-90% of the time by most of the NS.

                              The only time it wont be worn is for the small amout of personnel on a boarding op wearing a drysuit.


                              There is no tender because it is only a proposal at the moment. If it does come about its 2016 before it can be ordered. Contract already in place till then for current kit. Will not be a waste of money if the cost is the same. There is no extra money for the clothing budget like everything else.

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                              • #60
                                We train to carry out our assigned tasks. ATCP/ATCA and PSO are not training.We train to be able to carry out those tasks which we do on a weekly basis.All of which are specific jobs.
                                So 95% of the army are involved in all of these tasks , all of the time???? Don't think so.

                                You train, you carry out your ATCP/ATCA tasks, you go home.....

                                PSO tasks, you then enter in to the realm of doing the job you train for...and live that role.

                                Thats what ships crews do for all the time posted to a ship..normally a two year stint.For that time that ships depends on its crew as much as they depend on it and that can be dirty dangerous work. The gear needed needs to be appropriate. Again not sure about DPM, but the NS shouldn't have to take a bake seat to d'army when it comes to its kit requirements.
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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