AC fighter aircraft

[Jetjock]

To put it simply, any light formerly jet trainer types would be great in a twice a decade EU summit closed airspace, point defence, air policing scenario and absolutely perfect for annual airshow Silver Swallows national morale building money wasting exercises. They would be great as a luxury stepping stone aircraft for pilots destined to operate something with more capability.

The reality is somewhat different. As we know the Defence Forces as a whole are drastically underfunded, a mere footnote on Budget day. Going forward, anything that is purchased across the three branches must provide a real improvement in the overall defence picture. Token or luxury cannot be tolerated going forward. Not at the expense an EPV or more MRV's or more/better utility helicopters. Real capability or nothing must be the thinking.

[ODIN]

Plenty of F-16's going cheap now that the F-35 is coming on stream...

[GoneToTheCanner]

with not so cheap maintenance costs. You are dealing with costs equivalent to an airliner, before you even turn the key and then add weapons, without the bonus of the long service life accorded to airliners. The average airliner has easily got 30,000 hrs on it and can do another 20,000 easily; no such thing on a fighter. You buy an F16, you'll be throwing it out in ten years time, with 3,000 hrs on the clock. All that high-G hero turning eats up airframe life and everytime you hang a missile on the wing, you burn off the missile's flight hours, without firing a shot. An awful lot of effort for aircraft that, these days, are doing 300 hrs a year, if they are lucky.

[pym]

I'd love to know the FA-50 hourly costs versus a Gripen C/D, with all that F-16 DNA I wouldnt be surprised if it was more or at least as expensive p/a than the more capable Saab.

[apc]

http://planes.axlegeeks.com/compare/...n-vs-KAI-FA-50


https://rhk111smilitaryandarmspage.w...eptember-2013/

[Graylion]

To put it simply, any light formerly jet trainer types would be great in a twice a decade EU summit closed airspace, point defence, air policing scenario and absolutely perfect for annual airshow Silver Swallows national morale building money wasting exercises. They would be great as a luxury stepping stone aircraft for pilots destined to operate something with more capability.

The reality is somewhat different. As we know the Defence Forces as a whole are drastically underfunded, a mere footnote on Budget day. Going forward, anything that is purchased across the three branches must provide a real improvement in the overall defence picture. Token or luxury cannot be tolerated going forward. Not at the expense an EPV or more MRV's or more/better utility helicopters. Real capability or nothing must be the thinking.

I wish. i don't think that can be sold. Supporting measures like the AOR idea are probably what can be done.

[Graylion]

I'd love to know the FA-50 hourly costs versus a Gripen C/D, with all that F-16 DNA I wouldnt be surprised if it was more or at least as expensive p/a than the more capable Saab.

And let's buy European please.

[Graylion]

Plenty of F-16's going cheap now that the F-35 is coming on stream...

Gripen A/B can be had for the same money. Saab isn't daft.

[Graylion]

I'd go with Gripen F in the suggested Growler version - since we are dreaming anyway

[paul g]

The ALCA is fine as a point defence interceptor, but was never intended as anything else. If you have a secure location you want patroled, such as closed airspace, its ideal, but no different to something like a Hawk 200 or M346LCA/Yak 131.
Still just a Jet trainer with the instructor seat removed and replaced with avionics for weapons.

The Alca was a make work project for aero by the Czech government to save their factory, it seriously hindered the development in the Czech armed forces for at least a decade and offered no capability. It was a total waste of time money and resources, but was good for votes, nobody bought it because it was a pile of poo.

[Jetjock]

The Alca was a make work project for aero by the Czech government to save their factory, it seriously hindered the development in the Czech armed forces for at least a decade and offered no capability. It was a total waste of time money and resources, but was good for votes, nobody bought it because it was a pile of poo.

A pile of poo maybe compared to cheap F16s that flooded the market in the early 2000's. Another hindrance to sales was its reliance on US components(circa 40%), which practically gave the US a veto over foreign sales, something that was a major obstacle among the L39/59's traditional customer base.

The production run of 72 was nothing short of state aid and was way too many for the Czech AF. When it was realised very quickly that a fleet of that size was unsustainable, the type may have suffered from bad publicity internationally as a result of a huge cut in numbers on it's home patch. That and nobody wanted to end up with an orphan aircraft(remember the Dauphins).

The type was/is actually quite capable for an upgraded trainer design. It has precision weapons capability, is BVR missile capable(never used) and was notable at various NATO exercises for scoring surprising A2A victories over supposedly much better aircraft. It has found an unlikely new home in Iraq, where it has been put to good use supporting ground operations against ISIS.

[Banner]

Quick Question: Under the terms of the MOU with the UK would it be possible to hammer out a deal where we send a number of pilots every year to the UK for advanced training on their Airframes in their shcools and up to their standards. (obviously a fee would have to be agreed but it would be cheaper than setting up all of that infrastructure ourselves.)

We then allow for a number of RAF Typhoons to be based in Baldonnel but piloted by the Irish Aircrew that have undergone the above training. There are obvious wins for us but Im wondering if (Apart from having Aircraft stationed further West) there would be enough to entice the UK into accepting such a deal.?

To be honest I think something along the liens above is the only way we will see Fighter aircraft patrolling Irish Skies. Purchase, maintenance, training, and weapons fit for our own aircraft would be politically unsustainable.

[pym]

At a minimum we'd have to shoulder the training, operational and maintenance costs. And the p/h costs for the EF are eye watering.

[Graylion]

Actually, our EU partners have undertaken to defend Ireland in the Nice and Lisbon treaties. The UK is leaving the EU, so the fighters I'd see patrolling would be Spanish, French or German. Or possibly Swedish.

[Banner]

Actually, our EU partners have undertaken to defend Ireland in the Nice and Lisbon treaties. The UK is leaving the EU, so the fighters I'd see patrolling would be Spanish, French or German. Or possibly Swedish.

Ahh as far as I know no that is incorrect. The NIce treaty does not allow for common or mutual defence. it is not a military alliance and is on no way binding. Feel free to correct me on this by copying and pasting the relevant section of the treaty here. Id be willing to bet being shot in the nuts by a paintball if Im wrong :-) :-)