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Point is, other broadly similar small countries do manage to have air ‘forces’,.. i don’t think this country (fortunately) needs a full squadron of fighters (let alone two) like them, or aerial ‘24/7 QRF’. But, most on IMO would seem to think, and i’d agree, that some measure/token force, for the potential to react to whatever domestic situations or UN missions, would be desirable - instead of the effective ‘zero’ current capability, and without having to ask/beg, and then wait for, others’ to help if/when situations or, missions arose. This is more about ‘how can’, as opposed to why ‘cannot’.
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"So" you're 'proposing', from an overall fleet of "3- 6" aircraft, sending 'a subset' of those "overseas".
'OK'.Comment
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I recall a former GOC stating in an interview that 'while we wont be flying up and down our airways every day, there are times when we need to get up there to monitor our airspace' (or words to that effect).
While I too would love to see the AC equipped with Gripens or F16's, we need to be realistic and realise that this will not happen in the forseeable future (even more so with all the recent talk of the health service requiring an extra €1 billion a year?! ...thats another story!!).
Thats why I still believe that a squadron of Aero L-159's would be a big step forward for the AC / DF's. It would allow the following -
- Low purchase price / immediate (?) delivery
- Jets with on-board radar (never before available on AC jets)
- Easy of maintainence in comparison with other jets
- Low operating costs
- Patrolling of our air space up to 40,000 ft (as opposed to the current c.10,000 ft ceiling)
- Interecept ability
- Realistic chance of foreign deployments (if enough airframes purchased)
I know , I know, the L-159 wont do what a Gripen of F16 can do...but it would be a BIG and REALISTIC step forward in the AC's abilities.IRISH AIR CORPS - Serving the Nation.Comment
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If that was the case why go for an airplane with limited numbers compared to the BAE Hawk instead?Originally posted by Silver View PostComment
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Forget immediate delivery, they've been in storage for over a decade and have been cannibalized. The best of the bunch have been bought up.Originally posted by Silver View Post
How will the target be identified for interception in the first place? The Grifo is extremely limited.- Jets with on-board radar (never before available on AC jets)
There's a reason for that - a lack of capability- Ease of maintainence in comparison with other jets
There's a reason for that - a lack of capability- Low operating costs
- Sorry, the PC9's are limited to 10kft? Have you got a source?- Patrolling of our air space up to 40,000 ft (as opposed to the current c.10,000 ft ceiling)
Against what, exactly? The L159's never exceed speed is 518 kts. Its clean top speed is 505 kts. Now hang 2 Sidewinders and two tanks and tell me what it's going to be able to intercept, let alone keep up with.- Interecept ability
Ding ding ding - sorry. Let's put a stop to this notion of deploying IAC combat jets abroad. How could they be supported without CSAR and transport aircraft? Europe has hundreds of modern fighter aircraft that it needs to justify, advertise and sell. There's no shortage there and no reluctance to deploy. The shortage always seems to be with helicopter support. If the Air Corps is going to get a role overseas, it's got to be with the whirlybirds. Then perhaps transport aircraft.Realistic chance of foreign deployments (if enough airframes purchased)
The L159 may represent an increase in capability, if purchased with the required munitions, but I don't think that increase would be value for money. It would just provide the illusion of an air defence capability, while the DF has real world requirements that aren't being met.
Nothing is going to be purchased within the next ten years. Perhaps sit tight and see what happens with USAF T-X as it may spawn the modern F-5 equivalent. Hope in the meantime, logical moves have been made with primary radar, exercises, etc. so there's actually something to build from.Last edited by pym; 8 February 2017, 23:00.Comment
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Essentially, yes - it would be half of the justification to the public (and a genuine productive use) for the costs involved, that the public might accept."So" you're 'proposing', from an overall fleet of "3- 6" aircraft, sending 'a subset' of those "overseas".
'OK'.
look Pym no quotes!
PS - I just read the first two pages of this thread - covers all sides of the argument really!Comment
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I suppose it goes back to the comment I made in regards to the EPV and my AOR suggestion, if we are looking at defence in terms of EU/Battlegroup level then the argument for investing in helicopter/transport/MPA and getting someone to deploy to patrol Irish airspace might be an alternative position.Originally posted by pym View PostComment
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I think barring a 100 square mile gold seam being discovered under Abbeyshrule, that's probably as good as it will ever get.Originally posted by Sparky42 View PostComment
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Not sexy but when you look at the issues those larger forces have in deploying/sustaining operations then yeah even if we managed a Squadron plus we'd never be able deploy anything for operations.Originally posted by pym View PostComment
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The Czech deployment to Iceland was pretty impressive given their small number - but it's a relatively straightforward air policing operation. Combat deployment with a squadron of aircraft, as you say would be challenging! Nevermind with a grand fleet of three...Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
Whether it's IAC jets or RAF/EU jets policing Irish Airspace as part of an agreed mission - it's going to require a very big leap in defence thinking at government level.
And whatever the case, the initial ground work is the same - the facilities have to be at the required level and at a bare minimum, the state has to provide the radar picture. Latvia has the AN/TPS-77, Iceland the AN/FPS-117, Estonia the GM400, Lithuania the TRML-3D/32.
Ireland...Comment
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Binos, a compass and a pro subscription to flight radar 24 sure what more could your need!Originally posted by pym View PostEveryone who's ever loved you was wrong.Comment
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The DF won't even bring it's very portable field guns abroad, so why would they even consider moving a helicopter? They had such grief with the Mowags in Chad and Liberia, they don't want to bring anything fancy abroad unless they have adequate spares support and trained manpower. The Don isn't the only Arm of Service suffering from a techy drain.Comment
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Absolutely Gttc but at the same time the presence of a flight of helicopters could be the difference between and DF deployment overseas going ahead or not (ie if there is no helo CASEVAC capability available then for force protection reasons the DF won't deploy).
Of course no point sending a helo without the necessary spares support or tech's (or aircrew and considering there aren't enough to guarantee air ambulances!!).Comment
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even a few token Mi-8s would do...oh, wait...Comment
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I see that 2 Russian Bombers were intercepted by RAF Typhoons this morning off the West Coast
Last edited by Brian McGrath; 9 February 2017, 16:30.Comment
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