AC fighter aircraft

[DeV]

I said 20 years

And how many of those to flew it are still in AC flying appointments?

Seems pretty reasonable to me when you consider that the DF thinks that it takes 5 weeks of full-time instruction to learn how to use Microsoft Office. This consists of a one week CAPS course followed by four weeks ECDL course (inclusive of tea breaks, lunch from 12.20 to 14.00 and half day Wednesday and Friday). At least the new walk-in CAPS test knocks out some of this shite.

Too true
But that is just 30 weeks to become qualified to fly a BAe Hawk (or similar small jet)

Saab offered the Gripen NG to the RNAF and that included 22 weeks type & operational conversion (26 weeks for instructors). Not sure if that is to get up to combat ready status

[morpheus]

if youre going to invest in leasing fighters you will be able ot invest in training pilots. FFS its STILL not rocket science. we hire the instructors from swedish forces and attach them to the flying school until we get our pilots and instructors, or we extend the pilot training to include light jet in the uk or sweden and then fighter training in sweden.

[DeV]

What I'm trying to point out is that even if fighters were available for delivery tomorrow, it would take min 1 year to get qualified pilots

[ODIN]

What I'm trying to point out is that even if fighters were available for delivery tomorrow, it would take min 1 year to get qualified pilots

I doubt that the Bears are going to stop within the next 12 months

[hptmurphy]

However these days it would be fair to say that no matter how modern the Mig was (and some were nearly new) all are now not in service.

In comparrison to the F16 the pilots workload in the cock pit was deemed to be above that which was the norm in western type aircraft and as a result it was decide to remove them from operations as the training required was too dissimilar from that the Luftwaffe carried out.

Your quote was copied from wikipedia not from the manufacturer. BAe website call the aircraft an "Advanced Jet Trainer".

Slow day at the office?

[GoneToTheCanner]

If push came to shove, you'd find that they'd cut the fat from courses if they had to. Most DF courses take too long but are geared to the lowest common denominator, elf n safety and cushy jobs in out of the rain....the PC-9 has a jet engine which just happens to drive a prop, so it's essentially the equivalent of a single-engined jet trainer in terms of utility. It wouldn't be that much of a reach to convert a PC-9 QFI/QWI to an armed Hawk/L-39/Alpha jet driver in reasonably short order. Armies can surge courses when they want to and the Don has made some pretty radical changes in the last 20 years so it's not beyond comprehension. Going for something bigger/faster/nastier would take an appropriate amount of time.

[na grohmiti]

Good grief. I feel far less intelligent for having read that shyte.

Some more sensible responses there today

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/ireland-shamefully-neglects-to-defend-itself-312920.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/we-cannot-depend-on-neighbours-to-protect-our-nation-from-attack-312924.html

[Tempest]

Some more sensible responses there today

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/ireland-shamefully-neglects-to-defend-itself-312920.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoi...ck-312924.html

The author of the second letter is an ex PDF officer who's opinion about anything I would disregard. He was once one of my bosses but I had to remove his drunken, off duty presence from the (private) ComCen I was in charge of, which was engaged in active VIPSec Ops, when he rambled in after the pub at 2 in the morning after deciding to "change things round a little bit".

[Silver]

I believe that the (current) best option for the Air Corps would be a fleet of 12 x Aero L-159 (6 x L-159 ALCA's, 4 x L-159T2's, 2 x L-159's for spares)

- They are readily available at c.€1million each
- Are equipped with On-board radar (which no Air Corps jet has ever had)
- Can keep pace with a commercial airliner, Russian 'Bear's etc.
- PC-9 pilots could quickly transition to L-159's
- Low operating/maintenance costs
- Would fill the basic air defence role
- Could be purchased/be in place in a matter of months

For a figure of c.€20 million (c.€12 million for the jets, plus simulators, ground handling equipment, possible training abroad for crews, new hangar?) we could have a basic air defence system in place. In comparison to the money that is continually wasted with some state spending, €20 million for 12 x jets would be a positive bargain in comparison!

The issue of expanding radar coverage for the country could be dealt with in course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aero_L-159_Alca

[Charlie252]

L-159 Again! For starters it is MMO limited to 0.81 Mach, just for clarity that is the absolute limit, above this speed the aircraft is likely to suffer structural damage or some form of very nasty handling difficulty, modern wide bodies cruise at 0.82-0.86 Mach. In reality with external stores it is capable of only about .75 in level flight which means 737's and 320's would run a way from it.
so it would only have intercept capability against slow aircraft, no capability to intercept or track modern commercial airliners, after that it is just a development of a basic jet trainer to provide limited A-G attack. So what have you achieved for your 20 million?

[pym]

And to reiterate what ropebag said earlier - there were incidents were Tornado pilots had to light their burners when the Bears accelerated at altitude.

An L159 at altitude, toting A2A missiles & tanks wouldn't have a prayer.

[pym]

Just for the record - there was another flight today.

Russian bomber net up all day; RAF tanker activity also...hmmmm CC: @te3ej pic.twitter.com/OlnU9m9Vg0

— RussianNavyBlog(ret) (@russiannavyblog) February 18, 2015

Russian video, including Typhoon intercept here:

http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201502181902-tr6s.htm

(Now imagine the same video with an L159 (at best) briefly coming in to shot before disappearing into the distance, while the Bear gunner laughs. )

[Sparky42]

And to reiterate what ropebag said earlier - there were incidents were Tornado pilots had to light their burners when the Bears accelerated at altitude.

An L159 at altitude, toting A2A missiles & tanks wouldn't have a prayer.

Would something like the ROK FA 50 be able to keep up with the Bears, or would you need something more powerful again?

[na grohmiti]

I believe that the (current) best option for the Air Corps would be a fleet of 12 x Aero L-159 (6 x L-159 ALCA's, 4 x L-159T2's, 2 x L-159's for spares)

- They are readily available at c.€1million each
- Are equipped with On-board radar (which no Air Corps jet has ever had)
- Can keep pace with a commercial airliner, Russian 'Bear's etc.
- PC-9 pilots could quickly transition to L-159's
- Low operating/maintenance costs
- Would fill the basic air defence role
- Could be purchased/be in place in a matter of months

For a figure of c.€20 million (c.€12 million for the jets, plus simulators, ground handling equipment, possible training abroad for crews, new hangar?) we could have a basic air defence system in place. In comparison to the money that is continually wasted with some state spending, €20 million for 12 x jets would be a positive bargain in comparison!

The issue of expanding radar coverage for the country could be dealt with in course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aero_L-159_Alca

Its a fine looking aircraft, but there is no point being able to "keep pace" with a modern airliner if you can't catch up with them first. How useful is the radar for vectoring onto other aircraft? Can the man up front do it easily, while still retaining terrain/weather awareness (jobs most radar do). Why would a PC9 pilot want to transition onto a nearly comparable aircraft? We are back to the days of Warrior to Fouga. Plus, over water it would be very limited with just one engine. Add to that the fact that all its weaponry is bolt on, increasing drag and reducing speed and endurance.
Always, worldwide(when working over water), an interceptor needs to have long range, high speed, 2 engines, internal guns in addition to missile and drop tank hardpoints. In Flight refuelling is also a bonus, even if you don't have tankers. You may end up working with someone who does. Preferably not probe and drogue.

[DeV]

And what about spares and upgrades (seeing as it has been out of production for 12 years)?