Thanks Thanks:  499
Likes Likes:  1,081
Dislikes Dislikes:  38
Page 52 of 52 FirstFirst ... 242505152
Results 1,276 to 1,297 of 1297
  1. #1276
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    4,011
    Post Thanks / Like
    Given the number of ships tied up, I presume that Ireland won’t be providing any input?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  2. #1277
    Captain
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Given the number of ships tied up, I presume that Ireland won’t be providing any input?
    I doubt it, but given the reaction by some to the patrols ending, maybe if the Navy wanted to try promote the service again.

  3. Thanks Flamingo thanked for this post
  4. #1278
    Brigadier General
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,614
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Given the number of ships tied up, I presume that Ireland won’t be providing any input?
    Overseas trips is good for retention.

  5. Thanks Flamingo thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  6. #1279
    Commander in Chief
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,543
    Post Thanks / Like
    Once you have the crews to cover current operational requirements.
    It's catch 22. It all started to go wrong though when those on the previous med Op were not getting full overseas, even though they were in as much risk as many of those who were.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  7. Likes DeV, sofa, CTU, Flamingo liked this post
  8. #1280
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Once you have the crews to cover current operational requirements.
    It's catch 22. It all started to go wrong though when those on the previous med Op were not getting full overseas, even though they were in as much risk as many of those who were.

    If you are talking about the allowance that is incorrect.

    The claim for overseas armed was conceded by the DOD, and all Operation Pontus missions received overseas armed backdated back to the first mission by P31.

    All Operation Sophia missions received full Overseas Armed allowance from the start.

  9. #1281
    Commander in Chief
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,543
    Post Thanks / Like
    Do you not concede that the decision by DoD to argue the case insisting the op didnt qualify for full overseas allowances was not exactly fantastic for morale, while the crews did their best to pull as many as possible from unsuitable vessels, putting their own lives at risk while doing so.
    Or was everyone just tickety boo with the status quo?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  10. Likes DeV, CTU liked this post
  11. #1282
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Do you not concede that the decision by DoD to argue the case insisting the op didnt qualify for full overseas allowances was not exactly fantastic for morale, while the crews did their best to pull as many as possible from unsuitable vessels, putting their own lives at risk while doing so.
    Or was everyone just tickety boo with the status quo?
    Absolutely i do.

    I served on Op Pontus so i know exactly what we did.

    Overseas Unarmed was paid at first, but the dept concealed the armed eventually.

    Overseas unarmed was a lot more than we earned for normal PDA.

    The Dept had to concede the armed eventually.

  12. Likes DeV liked this post
  13. #1283
    Commander in Chief
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,543
    Post Thanks / Like
    So you agree with me.
    DoD tried to stiff the crews out of full overseas, morale was in the toilet, and eventually the DoD agreed to pay up, by which time, many who had done the trip had already made their plans to leave, most of whom were senior rates with 15 years or so experience, and a civvy street crying out for their expertise at more guaranteed than what the DF was offering, or even proposing, should the DoD give in..
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  14. Likes DeV, CTU liked this post
  15. #1284
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    22,527
    Post Thanks / Like
    DoD tried to block Op Pontus in the first place (after An Taoiseach said it was happening). And it wasn’t on cost, operations at home grounds etc

  16. #1285
    Captain
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,689
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    DoD tried to block Op Pontus in the first place (after An Taoiseach said it was happening). And it wasn’t on cost, operations at home grounds etc
    If Naval assets are requested then we should act positively in favour of the EU intentions. If we go all insular then we lose the benefit of working in an all Naval environment and the build up of expertise within crews and HQ's. There is probably ways and means of off setting costs within EU budgets. In regard to obligations at home, if all newer ships are kept operational, then home waters will be covered. Recent and potential happenings show a complete lack of knowledge in Maritime affairs and the potential for the unexpected to happen without adequate foreknowledge. It is obviously a Government decision to approve external deployments but Departmental raison d'etre to advise against may be because they don't want the Administrative hassle. The crucial question is what is the Government Policy on EU Membership??

  17. Likes Flamingo liked this post
  18. #1286
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    22,527
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    If Naval assets are requested then we should act positively in favour of the EU intentions. If we go all insular then we lose the benefit of working in an all Naval environment and the build up of expertise within crews and HQ's. There is probably ways and means of off setting costs within EU budgets. In regard to obligations at home, if all newer ships are kept operational, then home waters will be covered. Recent and potential happenings show a complete lack of knowledge in Maritime affairs and the potential for the unexpected to happen without adequate foreknowledge. It is obviously a Government decision to approve external deployments but Departmental raison d'etre to advise against may be because they don't want the Administrative hassle. The crucial question is what is the Government Policy on EU Membership??
    Pontus wasn’t an EU tasking it was an Irish Government tasking to the NS

    DoD tried to block it

  19. #1287
    Captain
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,689
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Pontus wasn’t an EU tasking it was an Irish Government tasking to the NS

    DoD tried to block it
    It was at least a bilateral agreement between the Italian and Irish Governments and eventually morphed into a pan EU Operation Sophia. There were inputs in PONTUS from other countries including the Brits.

  20. #1288
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    22,527
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    It was at least a bilateral agreement between the Italian and Irish Governments and eventually morphed into a pan EU Operation Sophia. There were inputs in PONTUS from other countries including the Brits.
    Enda announced immediately after an EU Council meeting to RTE that he was going to send a NS vesssl to the Med in what became OP PONTUS (you rightly say there was a bilateral agreement with Italy)

    DoD attempted to block it after that announcement

  21. Thanks na grohmiti, Flamingo thanked for this post
  22. #1289
    Commander in Chief
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,543
    Post Thanks / Like
    Timely clip from DFPO.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  23. Likes DeV, Shaqra, Turkey liked this post
  24. #1290
    Commander in Chief
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,543
    Post Thanks / Like
    Op Sophia ends today.
    Op Irini (Greek for Peace) begins tomorrow.
    IRINI, (Greek for "peace"), will have as its core task the implementation of the UN arms embargo through the use of aerial, satellite and maritime assets. In particular the mission will be able to carry out inspections of vessels on the high seas off the coast of Libya suspected to be carrying arms or related material to and from Libya in accordance with United Nations Security Council Resolution 2292 (2016).
    As secondary tasks, EUNAVFOR MED IRINI will also:
    monitor and gather information on illicit exports from Libya of petroleum, crude oil and refined petroleum products
    contribute to the capacity building and training of the Libyan Coast Guard and Navy in law enforcement tasks at sea
    contribute to the disruption of the business model of human smuggling and trafficking networks through information gathering and patrolling by planes
    IRINI will be led by Rear Admiral Fabio Agostini as EU Operation Commander, and its headquarters will be located in Rome, Italy.
    The mandate of Operation IRINI will initially last until 31 March 2021, and will be under the close scrutiny of EU Member States, that will exercise political control and strategic direction through the Political and Security Committee (PSC), under the responsibility of the Council and the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy.
    In parallel with the launch of Operation IRINI, the existing EUNAVFOR MED operation in the Mediterranean, SOPHIA, will permanently cease its activities.
    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/p...-arms-embargo/
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  25. Thanks EUFighter, DeV, ias thanked for this post
  26. #1291
    2/Lt EUFighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,006
    Post Thanks / Like
    Can't see us joining Op Irini; too dangerous and would likely mean going head-to-head with the LE Aisling or Al-Karama as she is called today.

  27. #1292
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    22,527
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Can't see us joining Op Irini; too dangerous and would likely mean going head-to-head with the LE Aisling or Al-Karama as she is called today.
    They were already core roles of Op Sophia

  28. #1293
    Commander in Chief
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,543
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Can't see us joining Op Irini; too dangerous and would likely mean going head-to-head with the LE Aisling or Al-Karama as she is called today.
    She deserved to die in a SINKEX. Not as a vanity symbol for some local warlord.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  29. Likes EUFighter liked this post
  30. #1294
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    4,011
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    She deserved to die in a SINKEX. Not as a vanity symbol for some local warlord.
    Now’s the chance
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  31. Likes Shaqra liked this post
  32. #1295
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Can't see us joining Op Irini; too dangerous and would likely mean going head-to-head with the LE Aisling or Al-Karama as she is called today.

    Not with ships in operational reserve and manning issues.

    The roles are similar to Op Sophia which the NS were a part of.

    There would certainly be a role there for an NS ship if we could supply one.

  33. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  34. #1296
    Captain
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,689
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    Not with ships in operational reserve and manning issues.

    The roles are similar to Op Sophia which the NS were a part of.

    There would certainly be a role there for an NS ship if we could supply one.
    If we are asked by the EU, we should comply with the newly emerging refitted ship, but upgrade her secondary 20mm to 30mm. Ensure that our NS is represented operationally in the HQ to agree and match taskings to capability.

  35. Likes Shaqra liked this post
  36. #1297
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    If we are asked by the EU, we should comply with the newly emerging refitted ship, but upgrade her secondary 20mm to 30mm. Ensure that our NS is represented operationally in the HQ to agree and match taskings to capability.

    That won't be happening in the near future.

    If upgrades in secondary weaponry are happening, the P60s will be first to receive it.

    The P50s are not ideal for overseas tasking in respect of Command and Control. The P60s are more suitable to overseas missions.

  37. Thanks Turkey thanked for this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •