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  • Originally posted by Toolbox View Post
    We do not need to fully use our NSR. We need to disband this group of poorly trained seaman, fake NCO's and inadequate officers. Give their budget to the AR where at least a healthy, fit person might just be able to match their PDF counterpart after 5 or 6 years service be of some use as a private.
    OK so you are talking about the desirability not the feasibility.

    Comment


    • [QUOTE=Toolbox;445372]Right where to start:

      Firstly call it what ever you like it is an overseas mission, an armed overseas mission in which the ships have stood by with rounds to repel. Not a place for badly trained reservist.

      FIRSTLY The PDF ARE NOT BEEN PAID IN THE MED AS AN ARMED MISSION
      SECONDLY : I AM SURE BETWEEN NSR/RDF THERE ARE MEDICS WITH HIGHER QUALIFICATION THAN MOST PDF MEDICS

      Is just another cop out

      Comment


      • irstly call it what ever you like it is an overseas mission, an armed overseas mission in which the ships have stood by with rounds to repel. Not a place for badly trained reservist.

        Secondly I have only met two members of the NSR who I would have pemitted a second trip. I have written letters on about their abysmal performance's at sea in the past. Once to find after recommending the particularly bad individual for discharge, they sent him for interview for the regulars.

        Thirdly there is no space for tourists, the operational expert staff who travel for the first two weeks are sleeping in the sick berths and on matteress/camp beds.

        Fourthly the young sailors are crippled by low pay. These missions are a chance to earn some money. An able rate of less than three years service earns €3.11 an hour before tax. They can earn an €2.30 an hour un-taxed an hour while on Op Pontus. This makes Op Pontus worth far more per hour than their after tax pay of €1.86 per hour.

        We do not need to fully use our NSR. We need to disband this group of poorly trained seaman, fake NCO's and inadequate officers. Give their budget to the AR where at least a healthy, fit person might just be able to match their PDF counterpart after 5 or 6 years service be of some use as a private.

        1. Space is the same no matter who travels.
        2. I accept that where a PDF man is qualified and up for it he should go. But if there isn't one available ? Why should certain shortages not be filled with a reservist - For the example above, why not the A.P. - he's fully trained and experienced.
        3. Pay is shite - but that's not a reservists fault.
        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Toolbox View Post
          Right where to start:

          Firstly call it what ever you like it is an overseas mission, an armed overseas mission in which the ships have stood by with rounds to repel. Not a place for badly trained reservist.

          Secondly I have only met two members of the NSR who I would have pemitted a second trip. I have written letters on about their abysmal performance's at sea in the past. Once to find after recommending the particularly bad individual for discharge, they sent him for interview for the regulars.

          Thirdly there is no space for tourists, the operational expert staff who travel for the first two weeks are sleeping in the sick berths and on matteress/camp beds.

          Fourthly the young sailors are crippled by low pay. These missions are a chance to earn some money. An able rate of less than three years service earns €3.11 an hour before tax. They can earn an €2.30 an hour un-taxed an hour while on Op Pontus. This makes Op Pontus worth far more per hour than their after tax pay of €1.86 per hour.

          We do not need to fully use our NSR. We need to disband this group of poorly trained seaman, fake NCO's and inadequate officers. Give their budget to the AR where at least a healthy, fit person might just be able to match their PDF counterpart after 5 or 6 years service be of some use as a private.
          How do you come to those rates, we got more as kids picking strawberries years ago. "poorly trained Seaman" theres a contradiction in that screaming to get out.

          Comment


          • Eh I used a thing called math to arrive at their pay rates and I fact I made a slight error in recall it's 8 cent more.

            €3.19 per hour.

            That is their rate of pay for a 7 day week in the med.
            Able Rating less than 3 years service.

            474.86 line pay, 19.32 naval pay, 41.57 military service allowance.
            535.75 total which is €3.19 per hour.

            an ordinary rating is even worse. they can be ordinary rates for 7-11 mobths depending on their branch.

            371.15 line pay, 19.32 naval pay.

            390.47 total 2.32 per hour

            All figures before deduction's and tax, actually spotted an error the poor buggers are so badly paid they don't pay to much tax.
            Last edited by Toolbox; 8 October 2016, 00:03.

            Comment


            • sorry goc132.

              It is an armed mission. plain and simple. a very dangerous one at that.

              Not the sea hags fault the DoD are people who don't know who their dads are
              Last edited by Toolbox; 8 October 2016, 00:07.

              Comment


              • trellheim.

                1. No it is not, space is at a huge premium.
                2. Not on an overseas mission, any overseas mission. we don't have the naval reserve training to any standard let alone the required standard.
                3. Never said it was.

                Do you what the actual effective NSR strength's are? I do and it is shocking. I mean the real books not the cooked ones they are using to record training nights.

                Comment


                • Reference space: the same space is available no matter who travels. No room for baggage - for sure.

                  Medics are medics no matter where you go. I'm talking about qualified people in particular specialities. Not 'gen pop'
                  "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                  "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                    UN missions are only open to members of the PDF because that is what the legislation states (members of the PDF as opposed to members of the Defence Forces). In relation to serving on humanitarian missions I cannot find any such restrictive legislation.
                    Afraid the legislation says PDF not DF

                    The electronic Irish Statute Book (eISB) comprises the Acts of the Oireachtas (Parliament), Statutory Instruments, Legislation Directory, Constitution and a limited number of pre-1922 Acts.

                    Comment


                    • Is there slightly more accom space on P31.

                      Comment


                      • Not really. Unless you want to put a few camp beds in the hangar. Grand for an overnight but not for a 3 month med trip.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                        Comment


                        • Ah lads c'mon now don't be asking me to be reasonable.

                          No reservists on overseas missions. I might accept first liner's with less than 3yrs gone.
                          Absolutely no reserve NCO or Officer overseas, they are not trained to the required standard. Enlist them for a year full time prior to departure and I wouldn't have to much of an issue then.

                          Loads of space on Eithne, they took 87 of a crew down in 2015. No bunks left empty.

                          Medics maybe medics and they are very highly trained. One reservist on these missions and the entire thing is goosed. Completely knocks the status of the mission down to a MSF level deployment, the Dept. would love to do that ton the INS. The reservist who does that would and should be keel hauled outside the point.

                          Comment


                          • So you would turn down an NSR officer just because they are NSR officers? Even if they may be (a) former NS officers, or (b) Master Mariners in civvy street?
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                            Comment


                            • Yes na gromití

                              If they were ex-ns officers and still in the NSR that's a big indication that their is a want in them. They must have topped out and retired at Lieutenant, don't trust that.

                              They should be super busy with their second career.

                              Former NS NCOs in the NSR maybe I could waver on that if they were in date for everything, a Bosun can't forget how to be a horrible bas-3rd no matter how long they are in civis.
                              I'd make him show me his tattoos first, if the salty beggar cant remember where the hell he got any of them, then he is all right jack.

                              The second only NSR man I have ever meet that was truly worth his salt is thus qualified. He would actually make a decent NCO, shame all the NCO positions in the NSR were full of drill rounds making him have to become an officer.

                              He can come along if we secure the armed pay first.

                              But until then nope.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                Afraid the legislation says PDF not DF

                                http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2.../en/print.html
                                This use of only the PDF is a decision which ultimately leads to an unusable resource of reservists and an ongoing lack of their specialist training. Most of this neglect lies in the hands of Authority both Civil and sad to say Uniform. The Swedes always used reservists/ national servists in big numbers. The only benefit in overseas, even at 3.19 ph for EVERY hour, is that ,for the single man it is a prisoner till he gets back home and gives him a temporary boost in lifestyle for his time off. The main ingredient to improving use of reservists is an ongoing training program for rates , NCO's, and Officers extending up to six months for the latter. We also need an improved vessel for overseas sustained deployments of 3 months or more. Training of course must always continue at sea, where on-the-job training is it's hallmark of efficiency.

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