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  1. #876
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    sorry goc132.

    It is an armed mission. plain and simple. a very dangerous one at that.

    Not the sea hags fault the DoD are people who don't know who their dads are
    Last edited by Toolbox; 8th October 2016 at 00:07.

  2. #877
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    trellheim.

    1. No it is not, space is at a huge premium.
    2. Not on an overseas mission, any overseas mission. we don't have the naval reserve training to any standard let alone the required standard.
    3. Never said it was.

    Do you what the actual effective NSR strength's are? I do and it is shocking. I mean the real books not the cooked ones they are using to record training nights.

  3. #878
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Reference space: the same space is available no matter who travels. No room for baggage - for sure.

    Medics are medics no matter where you go. I'm talking about qualified people in particular specialities. Not 'gen pop'
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  5. #879
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    UN missions are only open to members of the PDF because that is what the legislation states (members of the PDF as opposed to members of the Defence Forces). In relation to serving on humanitarian missions I cannot find any such restrictive legislation.
    Afraid the legislation says PDF not DF

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2.../en/print.html

  6. #880
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    Is there slightly more accom space on P31.

  7. #881
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    Not really. Unless you want to put a few camp beds in the hangar. Grand for an overnight but not for a 3 month med trip.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  8. #882
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    Ah lads c'mon now don't be asking me to be reasonable.

    No reservists on overseas missions. I might accept first liner's with less than 3yrs gone.
    Absolutely no reserve NCO or Officer overseas, they are not trained to the required standard. Enlist them for a year full time prior to departure and I wouldn't have to much of an issue then.

    Loads of space on Eithne, they took 87 of a crew down in 2015. No bunks left empty.

    Medics maybe medics and they are very highly trained. One reservist on these missions and the entire thing is goosed. Completely knocks the status of the mission down to a MSF level deployment, the Dept. would love to do that ton the INS. The reservist who does that would and should be keel hauled outside the point.

  9. #883
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    So you would turn down an NSR officer just because they are NSR officers? Even if they may be (a) former NS officers, or (b) Master Mariners in civvy street?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  10. #884
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    Yes na gromití

    If they were ex-ns officers and still in the NSR that's a big indication that their is a want in them. They must have topped out and retired at Lieutenant, don't trust that.

    They should be super busy with their second career.

    Former NS NCOs in the NSR maybe I could waver on that if they were in date for everything, a Bosun can't forget how to be a horrible bas-3rd no matter how long they are in civis.
    I'd make him show me his tattoos first, if the salty beggar cant remember where the hell he got any of them, then he is all right jack.

    The second only NSR man I have ever meet that was truly worth his salt is thus qualified. He would actually make a decent NCO, shame all the NCO positions in the NSR were full of drill rounds making him have to become an officer.

    He can come along if we secure the armed pay first.

    But until then nope.

  11. #885
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Afraid the legislation says PDF not DF

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2.../en/print.html
    This use of only the PDF is a decision which ultimately leads to an unusable resource of reservists and an ongoing lack of their specialist training. Most of this neglect lies in the hands of Authority both Civil and sad to say Uniform. The Swedes always used reservists/ national servists in big numbers. The only benefit in overseas, even at 3.19 ph for EVERY hour, is that ,for the single man it is a prisoner till he gets back home and gives him a temporary boost in lifestyle for his time off. The main ingredient to improving use of reservists is an ongoing training program for rates , NCO's, and Officers extending up to six months for the latter. We also need an improved vessel for overseas sustained deployments of 3 months or more. Training of course must always continue at sea, where on-the-job training is it's hallmark of efficiency.

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  13. #886
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    It's all well and good letting reservists help out with relevant needed civvy quals but not if it leaves a PDF chap at home on FIS with his accidental Cobh family searching the back of the couch for some spare change just to survive.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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  15. #887
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    It's all well and good letting reservists help out with relevant needed civvy quals but not if it leaves a PDF chap at home on FIS with his accidental Cobh family searching the back of the couch for some spare change just to survive.
    Well let the reservist cover duties at home then so at least the PDF guy on FIS can take his leave.

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  17. #888
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    A reservist should not go in a specific role if a qualified PDF lad for the role wants to go . No argument whatsoever.

    That said :

    Take a Doctor for example. If there is no PDF MO should an RDF one not go . You cannot claim they are trained to a different standard.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  19. #889
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Well let the reservist cover duties at home then so at least the PDF guy on FIS can take his leave.
    Probably lose all /part of the FIS for going.

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  21. #890
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Probably lose all /part of the FIS for going.
    So the answer is not to go ? [ ruling out raising pay ]
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  23. #891
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    @Toolbox

    I know I rather be treated by the RDF Corporal in Med Sch who is a HSE AP than by a PDF 3* with the UCC Course done (ie an EMT).

    The AP probably sees more trauma in 1 shift than the PDF guy will see in a month.

    Oh and go and see the head of the new DF Physio Service and start slagging off the RDF

    Hopefully I never meet either .... professional

  24. #892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolbox View Post
    Eh I used a thing called math to arrive at their pay rates and I fact I made a slight error in recall it's 8 cent more.

    €3.19 per hour.

    That is their rate of pay for a 7 day week in the med.
    Able Rating less than 3 years service.

    474.86 line pay, 19.32 naval pay, 41.57 military service allowance.
    535.75 total which is €3.19 per hour.

    an ordinary rating is even worse. they can be ordinary rates for 7-11 mobths depending on their branch.

    371.15 line pay, 19.32 naval pay.

    390.47 total 2.32 per hour

    All figures before deduction's and tax, actually spotted an error the poor buggers are so badly paid they don't pay to much tax.
    When you think further it is still a better rate than what the RDF get on FTT and way way better tan what the deckies get on FB's.

  25. #893
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    RDF no increments and 10% less, and no MSA
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  27. #894
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    So you would turn down an NSR officer just because they are NSR officers? Even if they may be (a) former NS officers, or (b) Master Mariners in civvy street?

    Defo.

    (a) Standard/training/ops change on a regular basis in the NS. A retired officer could not be upskilled in the short pre-deployment phase.
    (b) Master Mariner the same, not up to correct military standard with no offence intented to NSR. Their training is not up to NS standard, not their fault of course.

    NSR not being utilised at all at home. Its time that the NS command took steps to ensure that training is improved. FORST maybe could evaluate the units annually through a operational readiness evaluation. Gives the NS Unit OC's goals to aspire to.

  28. #895
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    Defo.

    (a) Standard/training/ops change on a regular basis in the NS. A retired officer could not be upskilled in the short pre-deployment phase.
    (b) Master Mariner the same, not up to correct military standard with no offence intented to NSR. Their training is not up to NS standard, not their fault of course.

    NSR not being utilised at all at home. Its time that the NS command took steps to ensure that training is improved. FORST maybe could evaluate the units annually through a operational readiness evaluation. Gives the NS Unit OC's goals to aspire to.
    Lots of ifs & buts there when you consider the deployability of officers back from maternity leave & stints ashore in NBAD, DFHQ, DFTC(C&S) and academic slots. If they are current then so be it.

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  30. #896
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Lots of ifs & buts there when you consider the deployability of officers back from maternity leave & stints ashore in NBAD, DFHQ, DFTC(C&S) and academic slots. If they are current then so be it.
    2 years ashore/2 years afloat being a case in point

  31. #897
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    Defo.

    (a) Standard/training/ops change on a regular basis in the NS. A retired officer could not be upskilled in the short pre-deployment phase.
    (b) Master Mariner the same, not up to correct military standard with no offence intented to NSR. Their training is not up to NS standard, not their fault of course.

    NSR not being utilised at all at home. Its time that the NS command took steps to ensure that training is improved. FORST maybe could evaluate the units annually through a operational readiness evaluation. Gives the NS Unit OC's goals to aspire to.
    Three NSR officers were recently given NWC's by FOCNS. One of these has completed two recent patrols as OOW including FLEX a couple of weeks ago.

    The FORST idea is a good one.

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  33. #898
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    Using nsr assets

    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggie View Post
    Three NSR officers were recently given NWC's by FOCNS. One of these has completed two recent patrols as OOW including FLEX a couple of weeks ago.

    The FORST idea is a good one.
    A from scratch training programme for NSR officers could be an abridged NWC programme concentrating on GPS, Rules of the Road, Lights and Shapes, Bouyage, GMDSS/ Comms., ECDIS, Chartwork, Firefighting, and handling FRC's. Leave astro to a phase 11 course with self study for such a course. An officer with such training could do initially watches such as 8-12 and 12-16 under C/O's supervision.

  34. #899
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    I speak under correction but are we short deck officers ?
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  35. #900
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    I speak under correction but are we short deck officers ?
    Not sure of the break down between Exec & Engr but:

    39% under establishment for Lt(NS)
    32% under establishment for S/Lt

    I have heard that FLR officers has been called up in the last few years

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