Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

CPV Replacement

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    The NS does have SSS etc that can scan the sea bed

    It’s possibly between the sea bed and the surface that is an issue
    Wonder whose side scan is in use. Is it with divers or generally with the ship. The quality of sonar is critical as it is in the littoral areas that submarines will hunt or wait.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
      Wonder whose side scan is in use. Is it with divers or generally with the ship. The quality of sonar is critical as it is in the littoral areas that submarines will hunt or wait.
      https://www.facebook.com/irishnavals...9377201145165/

      There were also trials from the SB early on in its career.

      But remember SSS is for mainly for mapping of the sea bed, for tracking a submarine either an active or passive ASW sonar would be required.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
        https://www.facebook.com/irishnavals...9377201145165/

        There were also trials from the SB early on in its career.

        But remember SSS is for mainly for mapping of the sea bed, for tracking a submarine either an active or passive ASW sonar would be required.
        They have had it longer than that

        Comment


        • The UK thinking is that hydrographic survey and mine clearance go hand in hand. Interesting.

          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            The UK thinking is that hydrographic survey and mine clearance go hand in hand. Interesting.

            They are only following the colonials, the RAN with SEA-1180 is currently replacing patrol, MCM and hydrographics vessels with an OPV carrying different mission modules. But the question must be asked is hydrographics a military function today? We have the Marine Institute (Foras na Mara) which is well capable of carrying out surveys! The NS should hunt mines and the MI should do mapping.

            Comment


            • The Marine Institute is also getting a new vessel to replace their smaller vessel

              If we were in a different place, the NS could be doing some of this work, more work with Enterprise Ireland, NMCI etc and/or have some personnel seconded to the Marine Institute, Irish Lights etc

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                The Marine Institute is also getting a new vessel to replace their smaller vessel

                If we were in a different place, the NS could be doing some of this work, more work with Enterprise Ireland, NMCI etc and/or have some personnel seconded to the Marine Institute, Irish Lights etc
                The Naval service already has a high permanent input into the day to day running of NMCI for the benefit of all and Naval Students in particular.We must NOT seem to be part of any other civilian organisation or develop an on call obligation into their functions. Our Defence obligations over time have become smudged by type of vessel chosen and their outfits. We must refit our capabilities to return to the Days of ASW, AA Defence, and MCM aspects. We need, additionally smaller training craft to upskill all those who will handle Main Fleet vessels. Hydrography is a specialised trade with large cartography Department producing Charts, Lists of Lights, Pilotage Books, Tide Tables, Chart Corrections, and have ships at sea collecting data in real time. It is a tough demanding trade, I was liaison officer to an RN unit charting approaches to Burtonport. They had two survey launches 4 Officers and about 10 NCO's and men, a rented storeroom and chart room, and blocked booked guest house , where I also stayed. It took them about 3 months.
                The NS has a lot of work to do that is at the moment undone. Let us concentrate on shortfalls.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                  The Naval service already has a high permanent input into the day to day running of NMCI for the benefit of all and Naval Students in particular.We must NOT seem to be part of any other civilian organisation or develop an on call obligation into their functions. Our Defence obligations over time have become smudged by type of vessel chosen and their outfits. We must refit our capabilities to return to the Days of ASW, AA Defence, and MCM aspects. We need, additionally smaller training craft to upskill all those who will handle Main Fleet vessels. Hydrography is a specialised trade with large cartography Department producing Charts, Lists of Lights, Pilotage Books, Tide Tables, Chart Corrections, and have ships at sea collecting data in real time. It is a tough demanding trade, I was liaison officer to an RN unit charting approaches to Burtonport. They had two survey launches 4 Officers and about 10 NCO's and men, a rented storeroom and chart room, and blocked booked guest house , where I also stayed. It took them about 3 months.
                  The NS has a lot of work to do that is at the moment undone. Let us concentrate on shortfalls.
                  If the DF wants relevance from wider Irish Society and other departments on side when it comes to finance it is an absolute necessity to engage with other State agencies.

                  It broadens horizons, encourages innovation and reduces group think.

                  I’m not saying that the NS should take over the role. Just co-operate

                  Comment


                  • The NS hasn’t got the crews to do its existing job, without looking for new roles...
                    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                      The NS hasn’t got the crews to do its existing job, without looking for new roles...
                      “If we were in a different place, ...”

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                        The Naval service already has a high permanent input into the day to day running of NMCI for the benefit of all and Naval Students in particular.We must NOT seem to be part of any other civilian organisation or develop an on call obligation into their functions. Our Defence obligations over time have become smudged by type of vessel chosen and their outfits. We must refit our capabilities to return to the Days of ASW, AA Defence, and MCM aspects. We need, additionally smaller training craft to upskill all those who will handle Main Fleet vessels. Hydrography is a specialised trade with large cartography Department producing Charts, Lists of Lights, Pilotage Books, Tide Tables, Chart Corrections, and have ships at sea collecting data in real time. It is a tough demanding trade, I was liaison officer to an RN unit charting approaches to Burtonport. They had two survey launches 4 Officers and about 10 NCO's and men, a rented storeroom and chart room, and blocked booked guest house , where I also stayed. It took them about 3 months.
                        The NS has a lot of work to do that is at the moment undone. Let us concentrate on shortfalls.
                        Totally agree, the Defence Forces by definition should be first and foremost a military force. The Naval Service should be resourced with equipment and manpower to provide for the defence of the state in the marine environment. Hydrography was for many years a military task as naval charts were considered Top Secret, the same way OS maps and weather were also in the hands of the military. The NS should first and foremost be capable of performing the necessary military functions, ASuV, ASW, AAW, MCM as well as secondary functions such as Fishery Protection.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                          Totally agree, the Defence Forces by definition should be first and foremost a military force. The Naval Service should be resourced with equipment and manpower to provide for the defence of the state in the marine environment. Hydrography was for many years a military task as naval charts were considered Top Secret, the same way OS maps and weather were also in the hands of the military. The NS should first and foremost be capable of performing the necessary military functions, ASuV, ASW, AAW, MCM as well as secondary functions such as Fishery Protection.
                          I’m not suggesting that NS take over from the MI
                          I’m suggesting increasing co-operation on related areas

                          Look at the exposure and investment that NMCI, the work with MERC3, engagement with industry, EDA etc has brought to the NS for relatively resource input to the NS

                          If the DF and Defence aren’t seen as relevant by the wider community we will remain at the bottom of the pile for finance.



                          How could IM be relevant to NS ops... say a seabed survey in the surrounding areas of subsea cables
                          Last edited by DeV; 17 September 2020, 11:20.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                            They are only following the colonials, the RAN with SEA-1180 is currently replacing patrol, MCM and hydrographics vessels with an OPV carrying different mission modules. But the question must be asked is hydrographics a military function today?
                            It is now moved to being a hybrid intelligence-defence function. https://trajectorymagazine.com/eyes-wide-open/

                            There is an alignment with what the Colonials and their northern hemisphere partners do in terms of marine geomatics and littoral warfare in their respective Defence Forces with what their respective spinoff GEOINT agencies do. Of which MARINT is obviously an important aspect. Yes SEA-1180 is an example of a platform agnostic approach to generating or acting on MARINT product.

                            Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                            We have the Marine Institute (Foras na Mara) which is well capable of carrying out surveys! The NS should hunt mines and the MI should do mapping.
                            Bathymetric research is one thing but this is very much best left in the Defence-Intel box.

                            Comment


                            • This is a very important insight into the inner working of Government with regard to Defence (and in general how it works) by someone who has been at the tables:


                              And it works accord all sectors of defence policy

                              Apart from the areas I already mentioned, it is a reason why for example there was the Employment Support Scheme. The DF has to make itself relevant cross-Government and to the wider community if it wants money.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                This is a very important insight into the inner working of Government with regard to Defence (and in general how it works) by someone who has been at the tables:


                                And it works accord all sectors of defence policy

                                Apart from the areas I already mentioned, it is a reason why for example there was the Employment Support Scheme. The DF has to make itself relevant cross-Government and to the wider community if it wants money.
                                The Military need to distance themselves from party political interactions and implied offers of financial support to Defence. The Defence duty and obligations to the security and Welfare of the State is where it is at , and should be the sole driver to equipping, training, and deployment of Defence assets. The PDF must continually submit it's budget requirements annually and PERSIST in all following years to attain the means to Defend the State. Buying large ticket items as placating gifts is counterproductive and causes new roles to pop up like weeds, which in turn snuff out many old skills that are still part of modern day defence. We cannot continue to renew ourselves based on political whims. Everybody knows the inventory for Combat units, Air Squadrons, Radar Surveillance, AA Defence, Naval Warfare, Coast Defence, Secondary Airfields, Harbours of Refuge etc. It is from that list you organise equipping and training. Lack of the right force projection, and lack of hours doing the job leads to dilution of ability and uncertainty in meeting adversarial situations.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X