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  • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
    It just occurs to me, if we do buy these two and the MRV is still going to happen are we now seeing the Navy going up to 10 hulls and if so surely there will have to be an increase in personnel above the current formal establishment even with the manpower crisis?
    Yes, and no.
    These 2 proposed vessels would replace the peacocks. (one of which is already wadied)
    The MRV replaces P31.(Has not put to sea in over a year, unless you count the spin upriver)
    We still only have a NS establishment for 8 ships, however the spec mentioned in the Examiner suggests you could crew both ships with the crew from one ship currently in service.(the Remaining Peacock?)
    That being said, at the rate people are abandoning the NS, you'll struggle to keep the 4 P60s at sea shortly.
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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    • 2 x Scimitar class patrol vessels? (They returned from Gib to the U.K. earlier this year)

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      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
        2 x Scimitar class patrol vessels? (They returned from Gib to the U.K. earlier this year)
        A lot smaller than what the article suggests and I don't see how they could really do inspections. Given what the French have been doing could it be the Flamant class? They are scheduled for replacement over the next few years and the French have previous like that, particularly if there was a chance we might buy new builds from them as a follow on?

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        • Lursen has a couple of Patrol ships still on the books from the cancelled Saudi order and have recently sold others to Egypt?

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          • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
            A lot smaller than what the article suggests and I don't see how they could really do inspections. Given what the French have been doing could it be the Flamant class? They are scheduled for replacement over the next few years and the French have previous like that, particularly if there was a chance we might buy new builds from them as a follow on?
            Doubtful, the French like to pass on their retired vessels to their protectorates elsewhere, and these have not yet been tagged for disposal, and their replacements are not due for another 5 years or so.

            The type of ship likely to be used would be between 40-50m long and can be crewed by just 20 personnel.
            It's understood that two ships not being used by a foreign navy are currently being examined and a formal approach to purchase them could be made soon.
            Interesting the use of the word "Foreign" and not "European".
            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
              Doubtful, the French like to pass on their retired vessels to their protectorates elsewhere, and these have not yet been tagged for disposal, and their replacements are not due for another 5 years or so.
              Not neccessairly, I mean they''ve sold on new build FREMMS to Egypt and current/new Rafales to Greece in only the last few years, if they thought there might be future salels they might.

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              • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                Lursen has a couple of Patrol ships still on the books from the cancelled Saudi order and have recently sold others to Egypt?
                https://luerssen-defence.com/english-luerssen-opb-40/
                Not sure that type has the seakeeping that would be needed even on the east coast. The Irish sea can get pretty bumpy in Autumn. The gulf and the Med are a whole other planet. You want sea state 5 at a minimum. I don't see it in their infosheet.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                  Not sure that type has the seakeeping that would be needed even on the east coast. The Irish sea can get pretty bumpy in Autumn. The gulf and the Med are a whole other planet. You want sea state 5 at a minimum. I don't see it in their infosheet.
                  True enough, wonder who we might look at, I mean there's 2 New Zealand IPVs but their crewing numbers are higher than whats suggested in the article? Another thought is how will the crews be managed in Dublin in terms of basing? Sleeping on the ships or using one of the Army Barracks?

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                  • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                    True enough, wonder who we might look at, I mean there's 2 New Zealand IPVs but their crewing numbers are higher than whats suggested in the article? Another thought is how will the crews be managed in Dublin in terms of basing? Sleeping on the ships or using one of the Army Barracks?
                    I would not worry about boats and crews. Sailors have traditionally lived on vessels that are READY DUTY craft. Looking around availability there is everything from Mine Hunters to 53 m Ready duty vessels built for the Belgians by SOCARENAM of Brittany . In Dunlaoghaire there used to be DOD quayside property for training and housing whaler craft. If we buy off the rail then we must ensure that the vessel is refitted to owners operational standard as per their Admiralty shedule for bringing vessels back into operational deployment. The Hunter sold for small money recently is undergoing major work before joining it's Baltic Fleet.
                    Assuming deployment to east coast, then a support command unit will have to be set up in Dunlaoghaire free of leisure craft. In ideal circumstances a mother ship with logistics and maintenance capabilities would do the job- like P31. She could supply command, food, oils, and maintenance.

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                    • Originally posted by CTU View Post
                      The two "decommissioned" RNZN Inshore Patrol Vessels?
                      It is possible and frankly a good option. If so the two 55m Lake Class vessels in question Pukaki and Rotoiti would be ideal for the Irish Sea. This is the kind of waters and role they were designed for.

                      They are in good nick, have modern kit, good sea keeping for their class of vessel and would be far more comfortable than the Peacocks. They were the only Protector Class vessels not to have serious issues on introduction to service.

                      The fact that they only saw active service in the RNZN for around 4 years and were lightly used for the last 5 years have nothing to do with the ships themselves. They work fine. It is just that a government in New Zealand 15 years ago bought two too many of a smaller patrol vessel type and two less larger, longer range and more costly vessels at the time due to a unrealistic funding cap, when the official Maritime Forces policy report argued to the contrary.

                      I would grab them if I was in the INS. Require just a crew of 20 to operate (though always went to sea in the RNZN with at least 22), though can embark 36 as quite often other Govt agencies like Customs, Fisheries, Police and other specialists would go on them, or the extra berths were for trainees. There is also years of life left in them, they have been looked after, and they will be comparatively cheap to buy and to operate.

                      If they are looking at that and snap them up - our loss and your gain.

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                      • Accommodated and supported from Cathal Brugha. That the easy option. Cant see them saying onboard for long periods when they complete the patrol and they could not afford the rent in Dublin, unless the get an allowance like the AGS rent allowance.

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                        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                          I would not worry about boats and crews. Sailors have traditionally lived on vessels that are READY DUTY craft. Looking around availability there is everything from Mine Hunters to 53 m Ready duty vessels built for the Belgians by SOCARENAM of Brittany . In Dunlaoghaire there used to be DOD quayside property for training and housing whaler craft. If we buy off the rail then we must ensure that the vessel is refitted to owners operational standard as per their Admiralty shedule for bringing vessels back into operational deployment. The Hunter sold for small money recently is undergoing major work before joining it's Baltic Fleet.
                          Assuming deployment to east coast, then a support command unit will have to be set up in Dunlaoghaire free of leisure craft. In ideal circumstances a mother ship with logistics and maintenance capabilities would do the job- like P31. She could supply command, food, oils, and maintenance.
                          That would actually be a wholly appropriate end of life use for a ship like P31.
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                          • Damen has some Stan Patrol 5009 vessels in stock, they could be from a Somali order that went into default.
                            The Stan Patrol 5009 is a popular vessels with plenty in service around the world, 28 crew and a price tag of €22m, only negative point would be the speed of 29.5kts.

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                            • Originally posted by Anzac View Post
                              It is possible and frankly a good option. If so the two 55m Lake Class vessels in question Pukaki and Rotoiti would be ideal for the Irish Sea. This is the kind of waters and role they were designed for.

                              They are in good nick, have modern kit, good sea keeping for their class of vessel and would be far more comfortable than the Peacocks. They were the only Protector Class vessels not to have serious issues on introduction to service.

                              The fact that they only saw active service in the RNZN for around 4 years and were lightly used for the last 5 years have nothing to do with the ships themselves. They work fine. It is just that a government in New Zealand 15 years ago bought two too many of a smaller patrol vessel type and two less larger, longer range and more costly vessels at the time due to a unrealistic funding cap, when the official Maritime Forces policy report argued to the contrary.

                              I would grab them if I was in the INS. Require just a crew of 20 to operate (though always went to sea in the RNZN with at least 22), though can embark 36 as quite often other Govt agencies like Customs, Fisheries, Police and other specialists would go on them, or the extra berths were for trainees. There is also years of life left in them, they have been looked after, and they will be comparatively cheap to buy and to operate.

                              If they are looking at that and snap them up - our loss and your gain.
                              How are they at slow speed manoeuvring for docking and undocking, our CPV's had loitering gear. What is the approach to berth speed, can you run on an outboard engine and propeller with the other clutched in, and trailing to reduce approach speed. Is there a bow thruster?

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                              • I'm sure The Haddington House Hotel across the road from the Naval Pier would welcome a government contract to provide accommodation for Naval crews ,is the Naval Pier still usable , head it was in need of some TLC.
                                Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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