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  • Within the 12 mile limit it is mainly smaller boats that do the fishing, like the 604 less than 6m that are currently on the register. As for AIS 1783 of the boats are under the 15m limit so relying on AIS to track is not going to cut mustard. Just like our lack of air search radar our NS needs to have a chain of coastal radars to be able to monitor our coastal waters.

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    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
      Within the 12 mile limit it is mainly smaller boats that do the fishing, like the 604 less than 6m that are currently on the register. As for AIS 1783 of the boats are under the 15m limit so relying on AIS to track is not going to cut mustard. Just like our lack of air search radar our NS needs to have a chain of coastal radars to be able to monitor our coastal waters.
      The CASAs would pick them up though

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      • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
        The National Marine Planning Framework makes interesting reading especially all the detailed maps that it contains. The map on pg44 shows the extent of the areas currently designated, but looking further one can guess just where new zones are likely. As a lot of these areas will affect small fishing boat activities the main concern will be how the effected person will get alternative employment. Will they find employment in the offshore wind industry?

        Overall a lot to digest in the document. Hopefully it is an indication that we are slowly turning around to look outward at the sea rather than standing on the strand looking inward.

        https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/def...work_final.pdf
        The Govt. document referenced above is part of Marine Spatial planning and was produced by the State's Housing department. It says very little on implying curtailment to fishing, other than to say stocks should be healthy and mature enough to be caught, while waters should be pristine and fit for purpose. A majority of things wrong with coastal waters, in general ,is under the management of extended Government. Globally resources of any kind are plundered and mistreated not least Bogs, mines, waterways, scenic sites, transient industries of an extractive nature like ISH in Haulbowline.

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        • No Dept of Housing, Planning and Local Government

          From the MPF not all MPAs involve fish

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          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            The CASAs would pick them up though
            The CASAs are on average only airborne 3 hours per day and given the size of the patrol area it would be almost impossible for them to detect small boats that do not spend a long time out as they stay inshore.

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            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
              The Govt. document referenced above is part of Marine Spatial planning and was produced by the State's Housing department. It says very little on implying curtailment to fishing, other than to say stocks should be healthy and mature enough to be caught, while waters should be pristine and fit for purpose. A majority of things wrong with coastal waters, in general ,is under the management of extended Government. Globally resources of any kind are plundered and mistreated not least Bogs, mines, waterways, scenic sites, transient industries of an extractive nature like ISH in Haulbowline.
              It is a draft for consultation and the dept that is coordinating it is responsible for Planning and Local Government. The consultation document covers almost everything that relates to our seas including the discharges into them. It sets out the status today and the question that it is posing is what do we want to do and where?

              Do we want to declare the U-boat graveyard off the Donegal coast a protect area due to its historical significance and as a fish refuge? Do we want to protect certain spawning areas like that for Mackerel? Or maybe not if we cannot catch the fish later when they are in UK waters!

              My main issue is that no matter what we declare as protected areas we need the means to monitor then 24/7 as that is the first step in enforcement.

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              • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                It is a draft for consultation and the dept that is coordinating it is responsible for Planning and Local Government. The consultation document covers almost everything that relates to our seas including the discharges into them. It sets out the status today and the question that it is posing is what do we want to do and where?

                Do we want to declare the U-boat graveyard off the Donegal coast a protect area due to its historical significance and as a fish refuge? Do we want to protect certain spawning areas like that for Mackerel? Or maybe not if we cannot catch the fish later when they are in UK waters!

                My main issue is that no matter what we declare as protected areas we need the means to monitor then 24/7 as that is the first step in enforcement.
                I agree in principle with your analysis of where we are. The whole issue revolves around whether we clean up at sea or stop land based pollutants entering the sea through half baked sewerage and industrial systems. Most cities world wide had barges dumping everything at sea both liquid and solid. We need a system of discharge licences and appropriate oversight. Where the Navy come in is to stop deliberate infractions. Fish is a thorny problem as to ownership of stocks, if they are born in Irish waters, when are they common stock, and who can catch them. The latter was easy under EU oversight. Unfortunately Brexit breaks that mould and increases duty for oversight.

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                • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                  I agree in principle with your analysis of where we are. The whole issue revolves around whether we clean up at sea or stop land based pollutants entering the sea through half baked sewerage and industrial systems. Most cities world wide had barges dumping everything at sea both liquid and solid. We need a system of discharge licences and appropriate oversight. Where the Navy come in is to stop deliberate infractions. Fish is a thorny problem as to ownership of stocks, if they are born in Irish waters, when are they common stock, and who can catch them. The latter was easy under EU oversight. Unfortunately Brexit breaks that mould and increases duty for oversight.
                  The "out of sight out of mind" has to be tackled, even the idea of dumping sewage into the sea is something we should stop. No only does it pollute but it is a waste of a potential green fuel: bio-gas.

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                  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                    The "out of sight out of mind" has to be tackled, even the idea of dumping sewage into the sea is something we should stop. No only does it pollute but it is a waste of a potential green fuel: bio-gas.
                    And today's backpage headlines in Irish Examiner "Conservation groups shamefully underfunded "by the State. It will be an uphill battle looking for pocket money for a myriad of tasks.

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                    • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                      And today's backpage headlines in Irish Examiner "Conservation groups shamefully underfunded "by the State. It will be an uphill battle looking for pocket money for a myriad of tasks.
                      I can understand voluntary conservation groups which are aiding the state are annoyed especially when horse and greyhound racing will get €96m next year.

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                      • Autonomous systems are largely an Industry led concept based on computerisation and distance control gleaned through many years of NASA projects. Not forgetting that many of the Nasa projects had crew on board taking over when glitches occurred. The mariner does not typically work in a FLAT sea environment nor does he always work in a non-hostile AOP. ROV's operate best in a created environment with all positive conditions for weather and non-aggressive interference. Taking the Navy ashore for certain roles will lead to inexperience of the SEA medium and a degree of equipment loss or failure requiring recovery actions and other minder inputs including ships.In my opinion ROV actions will have to be from a controlling ship operating similarly to the Minehunter.
                        Finally in another part of this thread about Designers of Defence policy and ToR's for the Defence Commission--terms such as "we will pursue a policy of ACTIVE military neutrality " might indicate that we have no intention to equip to deal with matters outside of our visual horizon. We should be able to reach Ireland plus limits of the EEZ.

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                        • In case anyone missed it.

                          Sounds like something larger than the Customs cutter, but smaller than the Australian Armidales.
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                            In case anyone missed it.

                            Sounds like something larger than the Customs cutter, but smaller than the Australian Armidales.
                            The two "decommissioned" RNZN Inshore Patrol Vessels?
                            It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                            It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                            It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                            It was the year everything changed.

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                            • Maybe a lease arrangement while two are being built , France or Holland maybe , CMN in Cherbourg build the Vigilante class which comes in various models , Coast Guard /Fishery Protection and armed Naval .
                              Last edited by Laners; 18 December 2020, 11:36.
                              Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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                              • It just occurs to me, if we do buy these two and the MRV is still going to happen are we now seeing the Navy going up to 10 hulls and if so surely there will have to be an increase in personnel above the current formal establishment even with the manpower crisis?

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