Originally posted by EUFighter
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Time to put some perspective on all this.
How many times have the naval service had to deal with mines directly with ships in the past 40 years?
Nil !!!!!!...None...Nada Sweet FA
All mines have been dealt with by Naval Divers and EOD....so why are we getting tied up in types of operation we can do without having to buy specialist vessels.
Just buy two more P61s to replace the CPVs,.........Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostBut in terms of crew training would we not have this with a MCM enabled CPV? If we are honest it too would spend the vast majority of its time on FP operations and very little on MCM. The same goes for the EPV-MRV, how often would the staff of the medical unit be deployed on the ship?Originally posted by ancientmariner View PostGiven the size of our Navy and it's one base infrastructure, a multirole capability within the Fleet is a positive. The downside is the level of inhouse expertise required in ships generally or available fully trained for mission tasks. There is also the possibility of conflicting requirements for specialist capabilities while on mission eg MCM , HADR, replenishment and troop movements to or from landing areas.
Same with a hospital capability, it would be army/HSE/willing NGO manned
Originally posted by hptmurphy View PostTime to put some perspective on all this.
How many times have the naval service had to deal with mines directly with ships in the past 40 years?
Nil !!!!!!...None...Nada Sweet FA
All mines have been dealt with by Naval Divers and EOD....so why are we getting tied up in types of operation we can do without having to buy specialist vessels.
Just buy two more P61s to replace the CPVs,.........
- it’s in the WP, therefore Government wanted it (or at the very least aspired to it) and DoD and/or DFHQ believe there is a threat (to some degree) and there is an MCM requirement
- who could have foreseen in 2014 that an Irish OPV would be deployed in the Med and have rescued over 17,500 people over 2 years
- it is very unlikely to be 2 dedicated MCMVs (if for no other reason than the rest of the world is heading away from dedicated MCMVs).
- there are many ways of delivering this kind of capability (anything from a small vessel with lots of working space aft for LARS, NSDS containers etc, more OPVs, more MCM capable UUVs for NSDS etc.
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Originally posted by DeV View PostI think the Minister mentioned it had started a few weeks ago
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Originally posted by Sparky42 View PostCheers, I wonder what if anything we'll see as an outcome for example manpower in the navy given the Shaw, or look at the future purchases now that we are doing out of EEZ operations, AC roles etc.
If you take in the paucity of Budget allocations throughout the PDF there are little grounds for certainty that the squeeze on Capital needs will be eased.Last edited by ancientmariner; 2 August 2018, 08:25.
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Originally posted by ancientmariner View PostThe WP 2015 has an implementation window ending in 2025, with an intention for review to meet planned targets. The target of maintaining PDF strength at 9500 is a limiting factor and encourages inter service displacement of strengths ie more for one is less for another Corps. The Naval Service still lacks a combat function to allow it to participate in maritime peacekeeping/enforcement missions. The next replacement ships needs to include this capability in their multirole purposes and provide ideal launching/ recovery systems for unmanned systems, HADR, and Army co-op roles at home and abroad.
If you take in the paucity of Budget allocations throughout the PDF there are little grounds for certainty that the squeeze on Capital needs will be eased.
Hopefully the defence capital spending increase in NDP will mean less current expenditure needs to be diverted to capita
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Originally posted by DeV View Post1st WP Update to be completed before the end of 2018
Given the changes in political entities in government the contents of any white paper can be pushed out or even put on hold indefinetely
In the case of ships unless there are hulls on the blocks in the early power change, the likely hood of any being announced toward the life span of any government is highly unlikely. Given we are within 12 months of an election the only possible replacement that will be announced will be for Eithne...indeed if any at all within the remaining life of this government.Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by hptmurphy View PostYou put far too much faith in White Papers.
Given the changes in political entities in government the contents of any white paper can be pushed out or even put on hold indefinetely
In the case of ships unless there are hulls on the blocks in the early power change, the likely hood of any being announced toward the life span of any government is highly unlikely. Given we are within 12 months of an election the only possible replacement that will be announced will be for Eithne...indeed if any at all within the remaining life of this government.
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Originally posted by ancientmariner View PostThe WP 2015 has an implementation window ending in 2025, with an intention for review to meet planned targets. The target of maintaining PDF strength at 9500 is a limiting factor and encourages inter service displacement of strengths ie more for one is less for another Corps. The Naval Service still lacks a combat function to allow it to participate in maritime peacekeeping/enforcement missions. The next replacement ships needs to include this capability in their multirole purposes and provide ideal launching/ recovery systems for unmanned systems, HADR, and Army co-op roles at home and abroad.
If you take in the paucity of Budget allocations throughout the PDF there are little grounds for certainty that the squeeze on Capital needs will be eased.
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In relation to having multi-role capabilities (sorry from DAMEN again) these can be had in a smaller platform. Damen have been pushing for a few years their Sigma 10514 with their so called SIGMA Multi Mission Bay. This is on a vessel with a beam of 14m (same as P50/60 classes) and offers a modular bay below the helicopter landing deck. Mission configurations range from Humanitarian Aid, Special Forces Support, Anti Submarine Warfare, Mine Counter Measure Operations to Mine Laying capabilities.
The RIBs shown are the FRISC-1100 an 11m version of the Fast Riding Interception and Special forces Craft but this could also be the 11m Atlas ACRIMS remote mine warfare craft.
The MMB is part of an offer of SIGMA 10514 vessels to the Polish Navy while the Mexican Navy will introduce soon the SIGMA 10514 POLA an extended range patrol vessel.Last edited by EUFighter; 4 August 2018, 13:23.
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostIn relation to having multi-role capabilities (sorry from DAMEN again) these can be had in a smaller platform. Damen have been pushing for a few years their Sigma 10514 with their so called SIGMA Multi Mission Bay. This is on a vessel with a beam of 14m (same as P50/60 classes) and offers a modular bay below the helicopter landing deck. Mission configurations range from Humanitarian Aid, Special Forces Support, Anti Submarine Warfare, Mine Counter Measure Operations to Mine Laying capabilities.
[ATTACH]8556[/ATTACH][ATTACH]8557[/ATTACH][ATTACH]8558[/ATTACH][ATTACH]8559[/ATTACH]
The RIBs shown are the FRISC-1100 an 11m version of the Fast Riding Interception and Special forces Craft but this could also be the 11mm Atlas ACRIMS remote mine warfare craft.
The MMB is part of an offer of SIGMA 10514 vessels to the Polish Navy while the Mexican Navy will introduce soon the SIGMA 10514 POLA an extended range patrol vessel.
In regard to OP SOPHIA and enforcement mandates I would imagine the Italian Command are watching individual ship capabilities and tasking them accordingly.
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