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Do we really need DPM gear ???

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  • #16
    Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    Doesn't that offer it's own operational advantage?
    i rather doubt anyone in Wherethefcukistan or Bongoville is going to be thinking 'i want to have a cabby at some septics, but i don't want to shoot any Brits/Aussies/Canadians/Danes/Swedes/Germans etc.. damn Multicams commercial success!'

    being western is enough, anyone who thinks there's any real differentiation between different western forces - regardless of the uniform they wear - who are all on the same OP is a delusional fool.

    i take the view that you should have a camouflage uniform that works as a camouflage tool, and if you wish to put big day-glo patches on it to 'friendly it up' then fine, but as soon as the two-range starts you whip them off and instantly disappear into the middle distance.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ropebag View Post
      damn Multicams commercial success!'
      exactly my point!

      How much of current camouflage is due to commercialism???

      while multicam is a successful multi-trrain camouflague the concept of one pattern suits every environment flies completely against the basic principle of making your camouflage suit the environment you are in and change as terrain changes.

      There have been plenty of very successful indigenous camoulflagues before multicam became widely adopted...UK DPM, UK desert, flecktarn, etc. all worked equally well in their appropriate settings.

      thats why I say our dpm works well in our setting...could be improved (and less corporate branding) but not necessarily a bad choice and an improvement over OD that faded to grey after multiple washes.
      An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain

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      • #18
        DFI kit is sound out, why would you want to change it? chest rig you guys have is sound.

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        • #19
          Napp have you ever worn or used our gear?
          And yeah our old seyntex dpm was actually really good and even if you look at pics of chad once it got a bit used it didnt stand out too much.... this new crap from wats and stone is muck... They dont even make the hot weather trousers any more???

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          • #20
            Yes.They do.I was issued two pairs of them recently.
            Incidently Cooneen, Watts and Stone no longer have the clothing contract.It has gone back to Seyntex, with the first of the 2014 contrct kit starting to be seen on local stores shelves.
            As usual the sizes are completely off
            Our Chest rigs are great for patrolling but lack durability in two key areas which makes them shite for crawling during PIA's etc.
            The zips keep breaking and the material on the ammo pouch lids is two thin which can lead to them ripping.
            The semi modular nature of the vest means that if a pouch rips the whole vest need replacing. MOLLE all over would have meant easy to replace pouches.But then we would have lost uniformity
            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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            • #21
              Ugh I love how ye have be "in the know" to get issued anything out of the ordinary.... Probably doesn't help we don't have a clothing stores in our barracks and our Q is shite. The only reason were able to function in the hot weather at the min is because the lads on the last trip left a heap of old gear behind some of which were summer trousers. Two lads have gone down with heat stroke wearing winter kit out here for the sake of "uniformity" .... Such a joke.

              On the chest rig yeah on its own patoling, doing recce tasks etc minus a flaker it is pretty good. It has everything you need to hand. But if the DF wants one piece of gear to fulfill all rolls then the Flaker and Vest combo cant be the best choice.... theres a reason the brits ditched them as soon as they went into afghanistan.

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              • #22
                You don't have to be "in the know" to get issued summer trousers.

                As for the battlevest, I don't like it and I particularly dislike the battlevest and CBA combo. I also don't see why the decided to issue our IPLCS kit in Irish DPM, it's nonsense.

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                • #23
                  All this "DF Brand" nonsense is ridiculous as well.

                  We're an organisation which actively trains to close with and destroy the enemy... We're not a corporate entity.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
                    We're an organisation which actively trains to close with and destroy the enemy...
                    Shhhh, the tree huggers and crusties will say that's a breach of neutrality...
                    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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                    • #25
                      Would it be feasible say to replace our assault vests with a molle plate carrier? Using the plates from the current CBA? Which as I understand are pretty good.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Wiggles View Post
                        Would it be feasible say to replace our assault vests with a molle plate carrier? Using the plates from the current CBA? Which as I understand are pretty good.
                        The problem with plate carriers are that they only give protection from rounds.They have zero soft armour which is what gives you protection from shrapnel.
                        The reason the procurement team went with a separate CBA and vest is twofold.
                        1/ By having separate garments you can ditch your load carrying kit whilst still retaining protection.Handy if you are say,digging in or if a casualty.
                        2/ You don't need to wear your protective kit all the time.Handy when the threat level doesn't require full PPE.

                        I agree a more modular vest would be better and perhaps a new CBA cover with limited MOLLE to allow the likes of drivers to shed the vest but still retain say an ammo pouch etc.

                        Do we need a whole new system ?
                        No.
                        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                        • #27
                          I suppose in this organisation they are more concerned with your protection than your ability to fight. There must be a version of CBA that allows superior freedom of movement though.
                          But also surely with a plate carrier the plates could be removed when such protection isn't warrented?

                          In my opinion the scariest part about about our system is what happens is your in an RTA involving water? (figure that;s the most likely way you'll end up in deep water) There's zero quick release system and two items to take off before you have any chance of reaching the surface?


                          Edit: Just came to mind..... Sure if the managed to give the CBA we have a molle cover..... well then that would the best of both worlds... basically a plate carrier with added protection. One item you could quickly don or remove.
                          Last edited by Wiggles; 6 May 2015, 19:05.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Wiggles View Post
                            Would it be feasible say to replace our assault vests with a molle plate carrier? Using the plates from the current CBA? Which as I understand are pretty good.
                            To use our existing SAPI plates in a carrier all you do is get matching soft armour inserts. SAPI have been superceded by ESAPI in the US military.
                            Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                            • #29
                              So is there no soft armour on a plate carrier at all?

                              If true, then your only protection is the plates, that isn't good!

                              Also the soft armour helps protect the plates from damage (no matter if your wearing it, it's in your main pack or in a vehicle)
                              Last edited by DeV; 6 May 2015, 21:17.

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                              • #30
                                If any of you watch nuthinfancy on youtube... its basicaly his argument on firepower vs mobility (in this case protection vs mobility)

                                Well far as I know some plate carriers have too smaller side plates... which our CBA doesnt.

                                If the CBA and vest combo wasn't obsolete the leading nations would still be using it?

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