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  1. #76
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Sounds like the Government are just trying to get rid of him.
    The question is who would replace him?
    Based on advise by DoD ?

  2. #77
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    When he took over, he was very keen to be seen to be "leaning in" (his words) to the DOD, thinking that by being overly flexible and cooperative that he would win over DOD. The problem was that he made us lean in so far that we ended up bending over and being shafted
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    I think you are spot on in your appraisal of his management style, but the problem being those who were too eager to please and allowed such changes to happen without running the scenarios and realising the potential outcomes.



    Dermot Early entered the game on his way to the top when the country was awash with money so in effect he was handed the DF when everything was good, but within months both that and his health failed, so we'll never actually know how it would have played out. he was willing to sacrifice the reserve in order to keep a 3 brigade structure. Given the numbers now, the retention of that structure only holds appointments open rather than having the man power available to operate three brigades.

    So the current CoS is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't by what is certain, what is current is not working.
    Was the leaning in to get the voice of the DF heard?

    Was it to make the DF more relevant to wider society (eg the ESS and working with industry etc) - and therefore not seen as an unnecessary expense?

    The COS can say what he likes to DoD they still hold the purse!


    I’m not knocking Dermot Earley but people seem to forgive the barracks closures - Letterkenny, Lifford, Monaghan and Longford - 650 personnel having to move posts with approx 4 months notice. Didn’t they only find out during the Budget speech?
    It was an extraordinary time requiring extraordinary measures.


    IMHO that should have been done in the 2nd phase of barrack closures
    Last edited by DeV; 16th July 2019 at 16:43.

  3. #78
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    One of Mellet's most damning legacies was that we should embrace the opportunity to prove that we can do more with less.

    He threatened to releave the FOCNS of his command last year when he highlighted the crisis in the NS. Now the same man is the hero for having the courage to do the same thing.

    Remember his Late Late interview when he said there was no crisis in terms of personnel in the organisation?

    He essentially has 2 roles, PR and strategic policy. If he had a pair of balls he would have been shouting from the roof tops 3 years ago about how things were stretched beyond breaking point. Instead we had "consolidation" whilst taking on loads of extra new stuff and expanding overseas.

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  5. #79
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Sounds like the Government are just trying to get rid of him.
    The question is who would replace him?
    I am a huge follower of military twitter .... never seen anything like whats going on at the moment. I think they are finding it wasnt a sheep they were bullying
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  7. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    One of Mellet's most damning legacies was that we should embrace the opportunity to prove that we can do more with less.

    He threatened to releave the FOCNS of his command last year when he highlighted the crisis in the NS. Now the same man is the hero for having the courage to do the same thing.

    Remember his Late Late interview when he said there was no crisis in terms of personnel in the organisation?

    He essentially has 2 roles, PR and strategic policy. If he had a pair of balls he would have been shouting from the roof tops 3 years ago about how things were stretched beyond breaking point. Instead we had "consolidation" whilst taking on loads of extra new stuff and expanding overseas.
    Such a pity, so much conjecture , not much proven or provable, least said soonest mended. Naval tradition is-- once somebody is alive on a gun mount, even though wounded, it should keep firing. The man I know will always tell it as it is to those that should know.

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  9. #81
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    One of Mellet's most damning legacies was that we should embrace the opportunity to prove that we can do more with less.
    Theoretically you could...... if you remove a lot of the structures that the older systems was built in and adjust and prove the systems of work before you attempt any change anything, but doing more with less shouldn't mean that you need to cut it to the bone.

    Often to make savings in the long term you need to spend cash in the short term, target the people you need to retain, up skill and pay them enough to stay on . And you certainly don't try to adjust how the thing is run during an episode of fiscal restriction.

    Instead we had "consolidation" whilst taking on loads of extra new stuff and expanding overseas.
    Point in case

    The man I know will always tell it as it is to those that should know.
    In the current age of social media , everyone who tunes in is the potential listener, the CoS must be factual and realistic about the state of his force and above all listed to the men he commands. he is the link between the DoD, the minister and the money, he has to be both the CoS and the voice of the people in the ranks.
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 17th July 2019 at 12:25.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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  11. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post

    In the current age of social media , everyone who tunes in is the potential listener, the CoS must be factual and realistic about the state of his force and above all listed to the men he commands. he is the link between the DoD, the minister and the money, he has to be both the CoS and the voice of the people in the ranks.
    First off, in Military Orgs. there is unlikely to be a twitter account , NOR should there be. Leading is usually from the front and those that are mobile follow. Galley radio feeds upwards and gets to the ears of GS Branch. I just do not believe NOTHING is being done.

  12. #83
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    First off, in Military Orgs. there is unlikely to be a twitter account , NOR should there be. Leading is usually from the front and those that are mobile follow. Galley radio feeds upwards and gets to the ears of GS Branch. I just do not believe NOTHING is being done.
    you are not a follower of Military Twitter ... its huge
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  14. #84
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    First off, in Military Orgs. there is unlikely to be a twitter account .
    Welcome to the world of modern communication. If you interact with the public you need the various social media accounts. These are just the ones I follow.

    The official accounts
    @dfreserve
    @DF_COS
    @DFPRB
    @PeterOHalloran1 (the current ACOS)

    Representatives and Veterans
    @oneFuchsia
    @RDFRepAssoc
    @RACO_PDF
    @RACO_DF

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  16. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    Welcome to the world of modern communication. If you interact with the public you need the various social media accounts. These are just the ones I follow.

    The official accounts
    @dfreserve
    @DF_COS
    @DFPRB
    @PeterOHalloran1 (the current ACOS)

    Representatives and Veterans
    @oneFuchsia
    @RDFRepAssoc
    @RACO_PDF
    @RACO_DF
    We have the same thing over the water - all the senior bods have twitter accounts, every ship has one, every unit from Regt/Bn level, and some Bty/Coy level, have them.

    Few ever say much that's controversial, but it's a way for interested hacks and politicians to keep up with who's doing what.

    It's the world now, you may as well complain about how unfair rain is...

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  18. #86
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The British Army found out about some big thing (can’t remember what it was not) just before Christmas leave on a YouTube video on Facebook.

    The military has to adapt to the modern generation

  19. #87
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    most US military twitter is the only way I have at the moment in keeping up with doctrine its fking amazing and wonderful
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  21. #88
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The British Army found out about some big thing (can’t remember what it was not) just before Christmas leave on a YouTube video on Facebook.

    The military has to adapt to the modern generation
    Found it

    This is how the politicians announced it - https://www.parliament.uk/business/p...12-15/HCWS367/

    Here is CGS's response - https://twitter.com/i/status/809488237643333632

    "Ring your duty officer" ...... over Christmas

  22. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Found it

    This is how the politicians announced it - https://www.parliament.uk/business/p...12-15/HCWS367/

    Here is CGS's response - https://twitter.com/i/status/809488237643333632

    "Ring your duty officer" ...... over Christmas
    These restructurings are caused by reduced numbers. It is also hastened by barrack movs. It will also be affected by required mobility, especially if you use terms like immediate and strike. In the old days they had the 16th Air Assault Brigade ( my son had the privilige of being it's BSM). How will new units be deployed with their hardware-sea-air-land ? and how do the Marines fit in to the offensive picture, or is it all cutbacks?

  23. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    These restructurings are caused by reduced numbers. It is also hastened by barrack movs. It will also be affected by required mobility, especially if you use terms like immediate and strike. In the old days they had the 16th Air Assault Brigade ( my son had the privilige of being it's BSM). How will new units be deployed with their hardware-sea-air-land ? and how do the Marines fit in to the offensive picture, or is it all cutbacks?
    Your son must have had quite the career. 16 AA brigade is still a going concern is it not? Just no more Royal Irish involvement as in Iraq 2003.

  24. #91
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    These restructurings are caused by reduced numbers. It is also hastened by barrack movs. It will also be affected by required mobility, especially if you use terms like immediate and strike. In the old days they had the 16th Air Assault Brigade ( my son had the privilige of being it's BSM). How will new units be deployed with their hardware-sea-air-land ? and how do the Marines fit in to the offensive picture, or is it all cutbacks?
    They are caused by the need to reduce cost

    The point, in the context of this, is that the head of the army used a video on Twitter to communicate directly to his soldiers

    They also occasionally use their YouTube channel.

    It’s a comms tool, yes everyone in the world can see it but it means everyone in the intended audience can access it, unlike the “town halls” where everyone available in a particular location is invited to attend to hear the senior staff speak and ask questions.

  25. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    They are caused by the need to reduce cost

    The point, in the context of this, is that the head of the army used a video on Twitter to communicate directly to his soldiers

    They also occasionally use their YouTube channel.

    It’s a comms tool, yes everyone in the world can see it but it means everyone in the intended audience can access it, unlike the “town halls” where everyone available in a particular location is invited to attend to hear the senior staff speak and ask questions.
    I think social media is a great tool being honest. I have watched a few of the youtube and twitter videos put out by senior personnel in the British Army over the last year and while you should take it with a pinch of salt and not be naive; they do seem more direct and straight to the point actually responding to some of the big issues facing the force. Now it is all heavily filtered but better than nothing.

    The DF here are doing a lot lately but it would be great to see us move beyond the (impressive to be fair) videos of soldiers/sailors/airmen in action with exciting music in the background to something more substantial for the benefit of those already in.

  26. #93
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auldsod View Post
    I think social media is a great tool being honest. I have watched a few of the youtube and twitter videos put out by senior personnel in the British Army over the last year and while you should take it with a pinch of salt and not be naive; they do seem more direct and straight to the point actually responding to some of the big issues facing the force. Now it is all heavily filtered but better than nothing.

    The DF here are doing a lot lately but it would be great to see us move beyond the (impressive to be fair) videos of soldiers/sailors/airmen in action with exciting music in the background to something more substantial for the benefit of those already in.
    And of course the audience (intended or not) isn’t just those seeking a career in the DF

    The public, politicians and others (DoD don’t have interest in the DF so they don’t) watch it. She what the job entails, what the DF do on a day to day basis.

    COS had a speech that he has delivered countless times to countless various audiences on YouTube a few years ago. Excellent speech if only DoD would resource it.

  27. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auldsod View Post
    Your son must have had quite the career. 16 AA brigade is still a going concern is it not? Just no more Royal Irish involvement as in Iraq 2003.
    He had despite being Royal Corps of Signals 216 (para). He was always a mainland soldier. Got commissioned as a QM but wilted as a bean counter . Retired to Europe. The 16th still has an address at Colchester but was always THE ONLY immediate unit for Rapid deployment. He did Afghanistan with them. The UK Army was bigger then but to upsize to a 3 brigade movable Division now is aspirational especially with Forces in Europe and in overseas training areas like Batuk and Canada.

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  29. #95
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    [QUOTE=hptmurphy;468993]Theoretically you could...... if you remove a lot of the structures that the older systems was built in and adjust and prove the systems of work before you attempt any change anything, but doing more with less shouldn't mean that you need to cut it to the bone.

    Often to make savings in the long term you need to spend cash in the short term, target the people you need to retain, up skill and pay them enough to stay on . And you certainly don't try to adjust how the thing is run during an episode of fiscal restriction. (Quote)

    I think also treating our dead retired comrades in an appropriate fashion is important. What kind of send off would you give a Senior Technical NCO that lived in the Garrison with his family ALL of his service life? His funeral was in the Garrison Church with all of his family present, a huge cortege of elderly retired comrades and their wives. A handful of elderly officers who were grateful for the many times the CHIEF fixed their electrics, other than a bearer party, where was the official service?For my own part I would have put the Base Flag at half mast while the funeral and service was in the Garrison. RIP PJ. ar Dheis De etc.

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  31. #96
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    [QUOTE=ancientmariner;471964]
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Theoretically you could...... if you remove a lot of the structures that the older systems was built in and adjust and prove the systems of work before you attempt any change anything, but doing more with less shouldn't mean that you need to cut it to the bone.

    Often to make savings in the long term you need to spend cash in the short term, target the people you need to retain, up skill and pay them enough to stay on . And you certainly don't try to adjust how the thing is run during an episode of fiscal restriction. (Quote)

    I think also treating our dead retired comrades in an appropriate fashion is important. What kind of send off would you give a Senior Technical NCO that lived in the Garrison with his family ALL of his service life? His funeral was in the Garrison Church with all of his family present, a huge cortege of elderly retired comrades and their wives. A handful of elderly officers who were grateful for the many times the CHIEF fixed their electrics, other than a bearer party, where was the official service?For my own part I would have put the Base Flag at half mast while the funeral and service was in the Garrison. RIP PJ. ar Dheis De etc.
    By way of clarification the SNCO was retired aged 94 and a great-great-grandfather. Official Service representation was minimal and not of a send off variety.

  32. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post

    By way of clarification the SNCO was retired aged 94 and a great-great-grandfather. Official Service representation was minimal and not of a send off variety.
    I think the problem is, as the service gets younger, the link between serving and retired passes. I think it would be fair to say there are few left serving today, who served under you at any stage, which in my book is still relatively recently, let alone someone who may have retired from the service a Generation ago.
    The average service for officers at present seems to be 15 years, maybe 21 for Senior rates.
    During a past command the Island opened its doors frequetly to all exers, and their families, at least once a year, and not just to those who were members of one of the retirees associations. This seems to have passed out of favour with subsequent flag officers, and as a result the service may not be as open to those who served it in their prime.
    We don't treat our exers well in this state. Those in command have a priority to treat thos still serving as best they can, due to the lack of respect the state has for those still serving.
    At the end of the day, I assume their was a breakdown in communication somewhere, and the person whose job it would be to deal with this protocol, may have been unaware of what was happening in the Garrison Church, given that their duties could have taken them to the other end of the Garrison completely, presuming they were even ashore, such is the situation with double jobbing.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  34. #98
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Good post Dev. Explains it very clearly...

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  37. #100
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    By way of clarification the SNCO was retired aged 94 and a great-great-grandfather. Official Service representation was minimal and not of a send off variety.
    A lot of the problem being those who served with him are dead and buried and most of those in charge of such events have no idea who the man was.....but thats not to say he shouldn't be given the accolades he was entitled to at his rank.

    The NS tends to be a more transient than the army where very few live their lives in the local area after minimal periods of service and indeed those who do stick around afterwards usually have retired after quite an amount of service have an affiliation to persons they have served with.

    Now the issue of representation, funerals etc, Ireland has changed and a funeral may not be the vent it was in former years, I don't do them, not even for family , in my service days I hated them as I remember as a rating being detailed to attend funerals of people whom I had no knowledge of, just to 'represent the navy'.... I probably hated the deceased regardless of ever knowing them as a result.

    IMHO, if the respects due are rendered by the service as laid down well and good, but the day of detailing people to attend funerals is long past and should remain so.

    I attended the funeral of a relative of mine back in 2000 , a former Lt Cdr, and while there were some there who did respect him and were his friends, there were also a large portion in attendance who were checking he had actually died. The pall bearers were ratings standing around in the rain on a sunday morning who had absolutely no interest in the event.

    Funerals are for the families, the deceased won't know!
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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