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  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Another example of a public critical facility being closed down by what is essentially a private organisation for their own future plans in Dublin Port. It essentially cuts Naval Service repair options by a high percentage. The Ministry for Marine is NOT looking at it's remit and duty strategically. Did anybody from a professional perspective Object to planning. The Port Company should be required to build a replacement Drydock on the East Coast to take any tonnage likely to enter Irish Waters.
    The Cork Drydock is also owned by a small Irish company and is not guaranteed existence.
    The're in the property development business Ancient....like everyone else. Eventually everything will be privatised as State "utilities" etc are sitting on loads of property ripe for asset stripping. We're being governed by Gombeen men and women.

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    • Naval Tread please, Where are the "Mods" when you need them?

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      • When the Type26 was originally touted it was meant to be cheap enough to attract large foreign orders. Now it is an expensive ship that even the RN can hardly afford.
        Then came the River 2 order, more than double the price of an P61 with only a landing pad as the major advantage.
        Now we have the Type31 which no one os really sure what they will be able to do for what cost. Hopefully if they are smart this time they will reject BAe and buy the BMT Ventor built in South Korea alongside their tankers. If not then there are the SIGMA and MEKO multipurpose frigates available for the price of a River 2 class OPV. Both built in friendly EU countries!

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        • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
          When the Type26 was originally touted it was meant to be cheap enough to attract large foreign orders. Now it is an expensive ship that even the RN can hardly afford.
          Then came the River 2 order, more than double the price of an P61 with only a landing pad as the major advantage.
          Now we have the Type31 which no one os really sure what they will be able to do for what cost. Hopefully if they are smart this time they will reject BAe and buy the BMT Ventor built in South Korea alongside their tankers. If not then there are the SIGMA and MEKO multipurpose frigates available for the price of a River 2 class OPV. Both built in friendly EU countries!
          The cost of the Batch 2's is pointless to include, as it's just make work due to the agreement with BAE, it was either get some ships out of it or just give BAE the money anyway.

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          • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
            The cost of the Batch 2's is pointless to include, as it's just make work due to the agreement with BAE, it was either get some ships out of it or just give BAE the money anyway.
            The Rivers are about the same tech level as the Babcocks so it makes a nonsense of the critical skill mass the Bae/industry insiders noise about. Oddly enough Bae share price is almost back at at all time high!

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            • Originally posted by danno View Post
              The Rivers are about the same tech level as the Babcocks so it makes a nonsense of the critical skill mass the Bae/industry insiders noise about. Oddly enough Bae share price is almost back at at all time high!
              Apart from the fit out for Helicopters, but more to the point the Batch 2's cost what they cost because the MOD HAD to pay that sum to BAE, it has little to do with skills etc, just getting something for the money instead of handing the money over.

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              • Thing is the MOD should have been able to squeeze at least 6 River class vessel out of the situation rather than bow down to BAe. Afterall BAe relies a lot on the Good will of those in the MOD for a lot of other current and future projects.
                BAe have always taken advantage of the "buy british" MOD. Anyone remember Nimrod, twice they managed to get billions before an emergency replacement was finally sourced from good old Boeing (E3's & P8's).

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                • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                  Thing is the MOD should have been able to squeeze at least 6 River class vessel out of the situation rather than bow down to BAe. Afterall BAe relies a lot on the Good will of those in the MOD for a lot of other current and future projects.
                  BAe have always taken advantage of the "buy british" MOD. Anyone remember Nimrod, twice they managed to get billions before an emergency replacement was finally sourced from good old Boeing (E3's & P8's).
                  Maybe they could have, but then looked at their systemic manning problems and thought otherwise? Maybe they didn't want to "encourage" the Bean counters to take anymore of an axe to the hulls of record with the "Grey ships" of the OPV's?

                  Sure BAE has managed to take advantage of the MOD (as a company it should), it's the MOD that continuously screws up in it's choices (MR4, or FRES, or the 26), along with some of the most boneheaded political actions.

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                  • The whole think with the procurement of high profile items seems always to get messed up. Let the military write the spec for what they need in terms of capability, let the bean counters do the contracts and once they are signed leave alone.
                    The only time the boneheads should turn up is to waste s good bottle of sparkling wine at the launch.
                    If the product meets the spec then contracts has done there part of the job.
                    Last edited by EUFighter; 25 August 2016, 00:37.

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                    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                      The whole think with the procurement of high profile items seems always to get messed up. Let the military write the spec for what they need in terms of capability, let the beantworten counters do the contracts and once they are signed leave alone.
                      The only time the boneheads should turn up is to waste s good bottle of sparkling wine at the launch.
                      And yet reality means it never will, I mean look at the 22 and 35 who have parts being made in virtually every state in order to buy votes, no matter what extra cost it adds, I can only imagine what the new bomber will end up costing for the US.

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                      • Just look at the cost of the F35C's that the navy will get and compare that with the cost of a F/A18F or EF/A18G. You can get 2 -18F's and a -18G for and have change for some juice for the price of a single F35C.
                        So the new Bomber will make the B2 look like a bargin!

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                        • Thought I'd post this link regarding the Type 31 from Think Defence. http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/type-3...-frigate-gpff/

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                          • I have never understood why everybody seems to ignore development cost.

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                            • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                              I have never understood why everybody seems to ignore development cost.
                              Because it's easier just to look at the headline, I mean the 26's is carrying decades worth of studies, reviews, designs...
                              For the 31's I'd guess they are going to go with the same trick as the 26's and take the hardware off the GP versions of the 23's to reduce costs, beyond that however I wonder what exactly they'll end up being and how much?

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                              • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                                Because it's easier just to look at the headline, I mean the 26's is carrying decades worth of studies, reviews, designs...
                                For the 31's I'd guess they are going to go with the same trick as the 26's and take the hardware off the GP versions of the 23's to reduce costs, beyond that however I wonder what exactly they'll end up being and how much?
                                I think it will be capable, but expensive. I am reasonably sure 5 GP T26s will end up cheaper.

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