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9 Ship Navy Included in Programme for Government!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
    Eithne good for another five years??!!........
    Ok, so why spend a shit load of money on refits?
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • #17
      Defence Development

      Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
      Ok, so why spend a shit load of money on refits?
      The document that has sent pulses racing is a "Discussion document" between the political parties and the Ross/Rural gang. They aim to keep the Defence force strength at 9,500 ,at least, with an aspired 4000 RDF. The personnel envisaged won't run a decent 2 Brigade Army, plus a nine ship Navy, plus an operable Defence, Support, and utility transport Air Corps.
      Nine Naval vessels would need 1242 personnel to keep them operational for seagoing. To this add training Cadres , Barrack garrison, and Dockyard Services. While numbers are strategically restricted , getting value from Capital expenditure will also be restricted. For reserves to work, they must be as near fully trained as possible to slip seamlessly into all Service units and ships.

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      • #18
        4500 ish are needed for an army BCT.

        Properly setup it would be nth times more capable than what the current army structure is now.
        This would leave room for naval expansion. All DFHQ appointments should be joint.

        Pipe dream though as Naughton is now a minister so there's Athlone safe for another while.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by morpheus View Post
          A couple of paragraphs on page 147 of 159 in total and way behind turf cutting'. I wouldn't be holding my breath tbh.

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          • #20
            Spoke to a guy i know who went into the navy a couple years ago. he said that out of his naval recruit class, most have already either left or transferred to the air corps or army and that there's only a couple of sea going members still serving in the navy.
            "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
            "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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            • #21
              Currently there are 1083 serving with the NS with 8 ships, if I add the crews of all together I get 385, so what do the other almost 800 do?

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              • #22
                And until something is done to address personnel retention on the NS (and AC) anything talk of a 9 ship NS or a MRV requiring a 150 strong crew is pi**ing into the window.

                The pay and conditions need to be addressed, that include:
                - improved naval pay
                - improved PDA
                - more accommodation on Haulbowline
                - replacement of the CPVs (due to their accommodation)
                - longer contracts
                - shore/sea rotations
                Last edited by DeV; 9 May 2016, 10:35.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                  Currently there are 1083 serving with the NS with 8 ships, if I add the crews of all together I get 385, so what do the other almost 800 do?
                  Well the VFM Report on NS Maintenance is from 2006 but:

                  Planning, Inspection & Maintenance Management Unit - 21
                  Mechanical Engineering & Naval Dockyard - 78
                  Weapons Electronic Unit - 59
                  Tech Stores - 10

                  There is no figure for the Fleet Suppprt Group but giving that they are part of the 2 year rotation system, it could be around 120-130 (not 100%).

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    Well the VFM Report on NS Maintenance is from 2006 but:

                    Planning, Inspection & Maintenance Management Unit - 21
                    Mechanical Engineering & Naval Dockyard - 78
                    Weapons Electronic Unit - 59
                    Tech Stores - 10

                    There is no figure for the Fleet Suppprt Group but giving that they are part of the 2 year rotation system, it could be around 120-130 (not 100%).
                    All your fleet support ashore incl ration stores, ordnance stores, CIS stores, Barrack Service etc etc

                    You then have Shore based services which includes divers, comms, boat transport, road transport, galley, Fleet Operations, Fisheries Monitoring Centre, etc

                    You then have the biggest unit in the NS, the Naval College which has more or less 300-400 persons in training at any one time.

                    Doesnt leave a lot left over...........

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                    • #25
                      Currently there are 1083 serving with the NS with 8 ships
                      Serving or establishment?

                      I would say with the amount of leavers they are well below establishment.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • #26
                        Can't remember the establishment of the NS but vacancy wise:

                        There are vacancies for:
                        30 Lt (NS)
                        37 POs
                        30 LSs

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                        • #27
                          Establishments

                          Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                          Currently there are 1083 serving with the NS with 8 ships, if I add the crews of all together I get 385, so what do the other almost 800 do?
                          Let's say it is almost 700 on paper not at sea. The general ship shore ratio internationally accepted is three crews to keep one crew Permanently at sea. This means after a months trip you should be able to send ALL hands on a 10 day break and replace them fully by a fresh crew. We of course don't do that but continue seamlessly with ship duties in port.
                          The ratio allows for recruit training and training staffs, it allows for sick, courses, other away deployments, Specialist sections, and those leaving prematurely. The constant attrition of manpower due to overuse of key personnel gives shortages in essential areas.

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                          • #28
                            Except due to personnel shortages the NS can't manage the 2 years at sea/2 years ashore

                            During that 2 years at sea they are generally on 1-4 week (sometimes 3-4 months) patrols for up to a total of 180-210 days annually.

                            When they aren't on patrol they are on X hours notice to sail.

                            Then factor in 43 days annual leave.

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                            • #29
                              Moving the Fish monitoring to the SFPA would free up a couple of Bods.

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                              • #30
                                Transferring Historic Responsibilities

                                Originally posted by danno View Post
                                Moving the Fish monitoring to the SFPA would free up a couple of Bods.
                                Never give away historic naval duties. The Japanese call it Harakiri or Seppuku. Depressed manpower figures can be bolstered but don't build empires for new or predatory agencies looking for a reason to take your job.

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