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  • You'll be hard pressed to find any fishy man on PAYE. Most are sharefishermen.
    It's an insult.
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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    • KildareStreet.com
      Written answers
      Thursday, 7 November 2019

      Department of Defence
      Defence Forces Strength

      Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
      Link to this: Individually | In context
      36. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the extent to which the numbers in the Defence Forces have fluctuated in the past three years; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45991/19]
      Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
      Link to this: Individually | In context
      37. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the degree to which membership of the Air Corps has fluctuated in the past three years to date; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45992/19]
      Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
      Link to this: Individually | In context
      38. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the degree to which membership of the Naval Service has fluctuated in the past three years to date; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45993/19]
      Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
      Link to this: Individually | In context
      I propose to take Questions Nos. 36 to 38, inclusive, together.
      The table below illustrates the extent to which the numbers in the Defence Forces have fluctuated in the past three years:
      Year Army Air Corps Naval Service Total PDF Strength (WTE) Army Reserve Naval Reserve Total AR and NSR Strength (Effective)
      2017 7,386 734 1,053 9,173 1,732 124 1,856
      2018 7,243 725 989 8,957 1,666 133 1,799
      2019* 6,983 720 951 8,654 1,548 148 1,696
      *as at 30th September 2019, the latest date for which such data is available.
      Recruitment and inductions will continue throughout 2019 to ensure the Defence Forces retain the capacity to operate effectively across all roles.

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      • Continues to drop in all but one.

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        • The only element of the DF that have gained any personnel is the NSR

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          • if anyone is interested some years back on this forum I plotted AR strength back to the 1960s off of oireachtas debates down the years
            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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            • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
              if anyone is interested some years back on this forum I plotted AR strength back to the 1960s off of oireachtas debates down the years
              Can you up date and share here again.

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              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                The only element of the DF that have gained any personnel is the NSR
                This was greatly necessary, the units, post reorg, had dropped below levels of sustainability.
                Any chance trell, that you keep the numbers here to those just relating to the NS and NSR? There are enough discussions on AR and Army strength elsewhere on this site.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                  Its merely granting a credit that already existed for other seafarers. It's being sold to the DF as a lotto win.
                  seafarers always got tax credits. In the north sea environment the Brit revenue are returning all tax less National Insurance to seafaring applicants but with extensive form filling and voyage evidence.
                  As regards other manning matters in this thread , it is an indictment of Military training and a dilution of seafaring solidarity and cohesion, that we cannot train our own cooks . The problem is an able rate has a large range of military duties in addition to his professional rating which requires at least 12 weeks of non-stop training to get basics right, followed by branch training for another period before advancement to O/Sea and Able rate. This will be an additional training burden that must be carried out to fit in new cook entrants.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                    seafarers always got tax credits. In the north sea environment the Brit revenue are returning all tax less National Insurance to seafaring applicants but with extensive form filling and voyage evidence.
                    As regards other manning matters in this thread , it is an indictment of Military training and a dilution of seafaring solidarity and cohesion, that we cannot train our own cooks . The problem is an able rate has a large range of military duties in addition to his professional rating which requires at least 12 weeks of non-stop training to get basics right, followed by branch training for another period before advancement to O/Sea and Able rate. This will be an additional training burden that must be carried out to fit in new cook entrants.
                    We can and do.... problem is they are leaving !

                    Comment


                    • Rather than recruit trained chefs we should canvas candidates about to complete their courses at the IT's or catering schools and enlist them specially as cook recruits. They should then undergo the recruit syllabus and then be rated Able Cook .

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                      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                        Rather than recruit trained chefs we should canvas candidates about to complete their courses at the IT's or catering schools and enlist them specially as cook recruits. They should then undergo the recruit syllabus and then be rated Able Cook .
                        In effect they are, the candidates have to have a QQI Level 6 (but don’t need experience).

                        They will do a 16-20 week basic course followed by 9 week DE Chefs Conversion Cse.



                        There seem to have been plenty of DF chef’s Cses over the last few years so I’m guessing there is a bit of a brain drain and the DF is finding it difficult to replace them.


                        Question is (and I did see a case in an ODF report), why don’t the DF survey people who already hold outside qualifications and see if they want to take up relevant appointments ?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                          In effect they are, the candidates have to have a QQI Level 6 (but don’t need experience).

                          They will do a 16-20 week basic course followed by 9 week DE Chefs Conversion Cse.



                          There seem to have been plenty of DF chef’s Cses over the last few years so I’m guessing there is a bit of a brain drain and the DF is finding it difficult to replace them.


                          Question is (and I did see a case in an ODF report), why don’t the DF survey people who already hold outside qualifications and see if they want to take up relevant appointments ?
                          Glad to see the matter in hand as outlined in your reference to basic and conversion courses. military Cooks of decent standard often double job in Hotels and restaurants and are easily weaned away by money or a bit of the business.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            We can and do.... problem is they are leaving !
                            In today's Irish examiner there is a piece on the shock of a group of Dail members visiting recruit and other accommodations in the CTC. it included mould, cold, and the standard blocked toilets. These are the same Dail members who oversaw the E 1.6m printer and E41m E-voting machines and allowed millions of Defence funds to be returned unspent annually. This year they are happy to return E60m of children's budget unspent. Kehoe's excuse was it would cost millions-so what- it will be there as a legacy for all future recruits and trained men. PDFORRA should be ashamed of themselves that there isn't a written agreed standard for Service conditions for accommodation, dining, medical and hospital support.
                            Last edited by ancientmariner; 29 November 2019, 14:55.

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                              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                                In today's Irish examiner there is a piece on the shock of a group of Dail members visiting recruit and other accommodations in the CTC. it included mould, cold, and the standard blocked toilets. These are the same Dail members who oversaw the E 1.6m printer and E41m E-voting machines and allowed millions of Defence funds to be returned unspent annually. This year they are happy to return E60m of children's budget unspent. Kehoe's excuse was it would cost millions-so what- it will be there as a legacy for all future recruits and trained men. PDFORRA should be ashamed of themselves that there isn't a written agreed standard for Service conditions for accommodation, dining, medical and hospital support.
                                It is interesting to examine closely the budget structure of the neighbouring nation. It runs at about £46b and is about 1.8% of GDP. about 25% goes on personnel and 34% on various equipment and it's support . The expenditure on buildings and infrastructure reaches 19.5%. They allow nearly 4% for R&D and they have a separate trading agency that buys and trades Defence equipments. If we were meeting western budget standards we would be spending E5bn on Defence and housing our personnel.

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