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  • Extend the seafarers tax credit to the NS

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    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
      Extend the seafarers tax credit to the NS
      How much is it worth, Dev?
      "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
        Extend the seafarers tax credit to the NS
        The NS is already entitled to the 'Sea-going Naval Personnel Tax Credit' of 1,500 (1,270 for 2020). 80 sea days are required which is a much lower threshold than for the seafarers allowance.

        The seafarers ALLOWANCE has far higher barriers of entry to receive and requires 161 sea days per year. Allowance is 6,350 so would result in a credit of 2,540 at 40% tax.

        So if the seafarers allowance was extended to the NS, it would be worth 1000 more to those receiving but less in the service would be eligible to claim.

        Best option is to increase the Sea-going Naval Personnel Tax Credit instead of extending access to the other.
        Last edited by Auldsod; 12 February 2021, 12:24.

        Comment


        • Between the end of 2019 and end of 2020 personnel numbers declined from 985 to 904, a decrease of 81. The minimal strength of the Naval Service is supposed to be 1,094.


          New allowance not working it seems. I hear it's not keeping the techs. Soon a PO/RRT will be as scarce as a WO/Admin.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40225262.html

            New allowance not working it seems. I hear it's not keeping the techs. Soon a PO/RRT will be as scarce as a WO/Admin.
            How many entitled to apply?
            Min 3 years service required and not all ranks can go to sea either

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
              The NS is already entitled to the 'Sea-going Naval Personnel Tax Credit' of 1,500 (1,270 for 2020). 80 sea days are required which is a much lower threshold than for the seafarers allowance.

              The seafarers ALLOWANCE has far higher barriers of entry to receive and requires 161 sea days per year. Allowance is 6,350 so would result in a credit of 2,540 at 40% tax.

              So if the seafarers allowance was extended to the NS, it would be worth 1000 more to those receiving but less in the service would be eligible to claim.

              Best option is to increase the Sea-going Naval Personnel Tax Credit instead of extending access to the other.
              If Government wants a sea going NS they will need to do something urgently (already too late), all they have to do is amend legislation (managed to do it for the fisher tax credit, which expires at end of the year btw)!

              I’d suggest min 180 days, on a NS sailing notice

              Comment


              • Apparently RACO and PDFORRA are unhappy with the small print associated with this new payment. Oddly, neither were consulted on it's introduction.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • It really is simple:

                  Pay Navy personnel a patrol duty allowance that is at least the same as the Overseas and Armed allowances and commit Naval Service Vessels to overseas missions.

                  End of.

                  You will fight people off trying to volunteer.

                  Just remember that the Marine Institute crew get €240 before tax per 24 hour at sea and part thereof for less than 24hrs.




                  PDA to be Circa €90 after tax per day on patrol. All crew / all ranks to receive the same.

                  Forget your half arsed tokenism of tax credits and service commitment schemes.



                  If the Navy is not being committed to overseas missions because numbers are down, why is the army not being scaled back from overseas missions?

                  Double standards from both the Dept and the Army centric McKee HQ.


                  Written answers
                  Wednesday, 3 February 2021
                  What are written answers?
                  Department of Defence
                  Overseas Missions
                  All Written Answers on 3 Feb 2021
                  « Previous answerNext answer »

                  Photo of Neale RichmondNeale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
                  Link to this: Individually | In context

                  355. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if there is scope to strengthen the presence of the Defence Forces in the Gulf of Guinea off the coast of west Africa to ensure that Ireland plays a larger role in global maritime security as the EU launched the first pilot of the new co-ordinated maritime presences concept on 25 January 2021. [5815/21]

                  Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
                  Link to this: Individually | In context

                  On 25th January 2021, the Council of the EU approved conclusions launching the first pilot case of the Coordinated Maritime Presences (CMP) concept in the Gulf of Guinea as the Maritime Area of Interest and the creation of the Maritime Area of Interest Coordination Cell (MAICC).

                  The Gulf of Guinea continues to face a challenging environment in which piracy, armed robbery at sea, kidnapping of seafarers, illegal, unreported, and unregulated (IUU) fishing, smuggling and trafficking of drugs and arms, as well as transnational organised crime pose a major and increasing threat to maritime security, affecting freedom of navigation, thus endangering major trade routes, jeopardising the sustainable development of the entire region and the economic livelihood of the population, and leading to the deterioration of the environment and biodiversity.

                  The EU Coordinated Maritime Presences Concept aims to enhance the EU’s visibility through a coordination of the presence of EU Member State assets in areas of concern where there are ongoing activities which could constitute a threat to international peace and security. The purpose of such a continuous presence is to support information gathering and analysis so as to develop greater situational awareness of key areas of maritime security interest, to support the security of States in the area of interest and to be able to counter illicit activities. The Maritime Coordinated Mechanism is distinct from CSDP missions and operations

                  Given the current constraints being experienced in the Naval Service and the availability of assets, there are currently no plans to deploy Defence Forces personnel or assets to the Gulf of Guinea. My Department and the Defence Forces will continue to follow the evolution of this pilot initiative.
                  Last edited by TangoSierra; 13 February 2021, 14:29.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                    It really is simple:

                    Pay Navy personnel a patrol duty allowance that is at least the same as the Overseas and Armed allowances and commit Naval Service Vessels to overseas missions.

                    End of.

                    You will fight people off trying to volunteer.

                    Just remember that the Marine Institute crew get €240 before tax per 24 hour at sea and part thereof for less than 24hrs.




                    PDA to be Circa €90 after tax per day on patrol. All crew / all ranks to receive the same.

                    Forget your half arsed tokenism of tax credits and service commitment schemes.



                    If the Navy is not being committed to overseas missions because numbers are down, why is the army not being scaled back from overseas missions?

                    Double standards from both the Dept and the Army centric McKee HQ.

                    https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/...s=naval#g988.r

                    Difference is overseas allowances are tax free, if PDA (taxable) was increased to match it they would like lose 40% in tax straight away.

                    Combination of increase in PDA and Naval Pay and increased tax credits would be more beneficial

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                      It really is simple:

                      Pay Navy personnel a patrol duty allowance that is at least the same as the Overseas and Armed allowances and commit Naval Service Vessels to overseas missions.

                      End of.

                      You will fight people off trying to volunteer.

                      Just remember that the Marine Institute crew get €240 before tax per 24 hour at sea and part thereof for less than 24hrs.




                      PDA to be Circa €90 after tax per day on patrol. All crew / all ranks to receive the same.

                      Forget your half arsed tokenism of tax credits and service commitment schemes.



                      If the Navy is not being committed to overseas missions because numbers are down, why is the army not being scaled back from overseas missions?

                      Double standards from both the Dept and the Army centric McKee HQ.

                      https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/...s=naval#g988.r
                      PDFORRA has lobbied for a number of years for naval patrol allowance to be increased to the same level as Portlaoise allowance, €79-€83.
                      However, the DoD and part-time Minister ignored them and decided to create their own cheaper scheme which has turned out to be a complete failure in short order.

                      With overseas allowance, the UN pays a few thousand dollars every month to the State for every soldier deployed, so that covers most of the cost of the overseas allowance.

                      The number of Army personnel deployed overseas has been reduced compared to previous years.

                      I've said it before, overseas helps retention, so cutting it will do nothing but make problems worse.
                      Last edited by Rhodes; 13 February 2021, 17:45.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                        PDFORRA has lobbied for a number of years for naval patrol allowance to be increased to the same level as Portlaoise allowance, €79-€83.
                        However, the DoD and part-time Minister ignored them and decided to create their own cheaper scheme which has turned out to be a complete failure in short order.

                        With overseas allowance, the UN pays a few thousand dollars every month to the State for every soldier deployed, so that covers most of the cost of the overseas allowance.

                        The number of Army personnel deployed overseas has been reduced compared to previous years.

                        I've said it before, overseas helps retention, so cutting it will do nothing but make problems worse.
                        In general, for all parts of the PDF, basic pay and traditional allowances must be adequate and must be proportionate to specific duties and trades. The rates for sea going, in the case of Naval personnel, should not have time constrained conditions or exclusion clauses. Payments should be at a per diem rate and paid to all irrespective of service, the only requirement to be on a ship under sailing orders. The principle must be to reward effort without antagonising other members of the crews.
                        As regards overseas deployment of assets for envisaged duties off the African coast East or WEST we need a certain range of defensive/offensive equipments not currently fitted to our ships . If we were to go we must meet all threats in the AOP and work with other surface and airborne assets.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                          In general, for all parts of the PDF, basic pay and traditional allowances must be adequate and must be proportionate to specific duties and trades. The rates for sea going, in the case of Naval personnel, should not have time constrained conditions or exclusion clauses. Payments should be at a per diem rate and paid to all irrespective of service, the only requirement to be on a ship under sailing orders. The principle must be to reward effort without antagonising other members of the crews.
                          As regards overseas deployment of assets for envisaged duties off the African coast East or WEST we need a certain range of defensive/offensive equipments not currently fitted to our ships . If we were to go we must meet all threats in the AOP and work with other surface and airborne assets.
                          Best ways IMHO being massive increase in MSA and Naval Pay as otherwise all the other public service unions will be looking for same basic pay increases

                          Comment


                          • Other public sector unions are all ready voting for the next pay talks, df reps have not yet been briefed on the contents. It is beyond belief how they are treated. Would you stand for it in your work place. Talking to a few over the last number of days. If the codf makes having a specialist skill attractive, some will leave PDF and join RDF. And some friends who are within recruitment age and have specialist skills would join RDF but not as Recruits.

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                            • ...and the Marine Institute personnel have a union with teeth, so if they have a grievance, they can run to their shop steward and their ship will not sail. The cheque book will be pulled out and the ship will sail. You can't do that in the navy so you will be stuck with whatever the DoF will deign to give you.

                              Comment


                              • I was referring to the whole PDF as the army are only starting to feel the way the AC and NS were a few years ago.
                                However from what your saying above is like it or lump it and that's why the DF is in its sorry state, so I guess your going to get a lot of company over the next year or two when the DF goes to the canner.

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