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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    I can’t remember exactly but the target is that the NS fleet has to be at sea/capable of being put to sea with x hours ..... a very high percentage of time

    But they don’t have the establishment for that never mind the strength
    The powers that decide were told what the establishment should be for each ship type. The idea was that if you added a ship type then you added the agreed crew strengths to the Establishment plus necessary Sea Going replacements in the knock on effect. In the Draft for the New Naval Structure for Naval base. Ships, Dockyard and HQ the Strength was AFAIK in excess of 1200 for, at the time, a 6 ship Fleet. It is now 9 ships without stipulated manpower.
    I accept Bravo 20 remarks about PDA aka SGA and agree it should be a Tax Credit or Free of tax.

    Notice was tiered with a ship varying from maximum agreed notice in the Basin, to standard operational notice at the OW. Once out on SO the ship remained at Immediate notice throughout her patrol duration. Notice could also be meaningless as a laid-up ship could be brought to 72 hours notice and rushed out with re-calls and replacements using chaos theory.

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    • I'm sure it's a political minefield but was there ever consideration made from transferring manpower from the army to the navy within the DoD? Basically, remove an infantry battalion and recruit those numbers into the Navy?

      The split for the NZDF is Army 4,584, Navy 2,132 and Air Force 2,403. If you reduce down the size of the air force to reflect the size of the Air Corps, it isn't too far off our PDF establishment...

      Note: I'm not suggesting a 2000 + person NS but a 200+ extra bodies wouldn't go astray if they could be motivated to join and stay in.
      Last edited by Auldsod; 26 October 2018, 10:39.

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      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
        The powers that decide were told what the establishment should be for each ship type. The idea was that if you added a ship type then you added the agreed crew strengths to the Establishment plus necessary Sea Going replacements in the knock on effect. In the Draft for the New Naval Structure for Naval base. Ships, Dockyard and HQ the Strength was AFAIK in excess of 1200 for, at the time, a 6 ship Fleet. It is now 9 ships without stipulated manpower.
        I accept Bravo 20 remarks about PDA aka SGA and agree it should be a Tax Credit or Free of tax.

        Notice was tiered with a ship varying from maximum agreed notice in the Basin, to standard operational notice at the OW. Once out on SO the ship remained at Immediate notice throughout her patrol duration. Notice could also be meaningless as a laid-up ship could be brought to 72 hours notice and rushed out with re-calls and replacements using chaos theory.
        A long time and water under the bridge since there was a 6 ship navy

        I think it was something like 90% to be available in less than xx hours (opsec but a lot less than 72)

        Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
        I'm sure it's a political minefield but was there ever consideration made from transferring manpower from the army to the navy within the DoD? Basically, remove an infantry battalion and recruit those numbers into the Navy?

        The split for the NZDF is Army 4,584, Navy 2,132 and Air Force 2,403. If you reduce down the size of the air force to reflect the size of the Air Corps, it isn't too far off our PDF establishment...

        Note: I'm not suggesting a 2000 + person NS but a 200+ extra bodies wouldn't go astray if they could be motivated to join and stay in.
        Only ever heard of people transferring from NS to army

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        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
          Only ever heard of people transferring from NS to army
          I mean a fundamental reorganisation of the establishment of the Army and Navy.

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          • what would actually happen - is that 200 bods would be let go from army with the "intention" of not recruiting 200 replacements for the army, but instead increasing naval establishment x 200 - nobody wants to join the navy these days so this would never happen and we would end up with effective strength at 9300
            "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
            "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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            • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
              what would actually happen - is that 200 bods would be let go from army with the "intention" of not recruiting 200 replacements for the army, but instead increasing naval establishment x 200 - nobody wants to join the navy these days so this would never happen and we would end up with effective strength at 9300
              I still think we should try an open door recruiting policy for the Naval Service by using Reserve Cadre offices in Dublin, Waterford, Cork, and Limerick as drop in recruiting offices . They would issue warrants and joining instructions for any survivors of grilling and chat from regular staffs. You could also have a nominated Office in the Naval Base, Galway and Athlone for naval Recruiting. It worked before and could be time limited for all venues.
              Nobody wants to join could be a sub set of nobody knows what is on offer or the opportunities that arise quite frequently like 5 young techs getting their degrees in Electronic Engineering in the last week.

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              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                I still think we should try an open door recruiting policy for the Naval Service by using Reserve Cadre offices in Dublin, Waterford, Cork, and Limerick as drop in recruiting offices . They would issue warrants and joining instructions for any survivors of grilling and chat from regular staffs. You could also have a nominated Office in the Naval Base, Galway and Athlone for naval Recruiting. It worked before and could be time limited for all venues.
                Nobody wants to join could be a sub set of nobody knows what is on offer or the opportunities that arise quite frequently like 5 young techs getting their degrees in Electronic Engineering in the last week.
                Things have got more complicated in the recruitment space since however. They would need to pass fitness test, medical checks as well as get security clearance etc. I think the Navy would end up in worse situation if it took in recruits after just an interview with cadre staff.

                It was also good to see the young techs get their degrees but let us not forget that you could get the same qualification straight from school without the pressures of military life. Getting paid to do post graduate qualifications is a bigger draw but that's something only in officer and SNCO world.

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                • There is a certain logic in what ancientmariner says. Walk-in interviews are still a popular method for recruiting in industry, and using the cadre offices may be less intimidating, (and more secure) than insisting on initial interview beyond the barrack gate. Medical and Security checks can be done quickly when necessary.

                  Perhaps the concept of the "queens shilling" may also inspire recruitment? Agree payment fo applicants of travel expenses to a set maximum on completion (successfully or unsuccessfully) of the recruitment process. Is a potential recruit from Galway going to make the journey to Cork for a fitness test that he or she may or may not pass when his or her dole for the week barely covers the train fare? Are we restricting the best potential candidates due to their economic circumstances?
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
                    There is a certain logic in what ancientmariner says. Walk-in interviews are still a popular method for recruiting in industry, and using the cadre offices may be less intimidating, (and more secure) than insisting on initial interview beyond the barrack gate. Medical and Security checks can be done quickly when necessary.

                    Perhaps the concept of the "queens shilling" may also inspire recruitment? Agree payment fo applicants of travel expenses to a set maximum on completion (successfully or unsuccessfully) of the recruitment process. Is a potential recruit from Galway going to make the journey to Cork for a fitness test that he or she may or may not pass when his or her dole for the week barely covers the train fare? Are we restricting the best potential candidates due to their economic circumstances?
                    I know the UK military will provide such compensation for travelling with warrants etc. I'm not sure if the administrative or cultural will is in our own DF to move to such a process. Haulbowline is quite a trek when you've nocar especially when 90% of applicants will have no knowledge of the launch from Cobh (and probably shouldn't be on it anyway).

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                    • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                      I know the UK military will provide such compensation for travelling with warrants etc. I'm not sure if the administrative or cultural will is in our own DF to move to such a process. Haulbowline is quite a trek when you've nocar especially when 90% of applicants will have no knowledge of the launch from Cobh (and probably shouldn't be on it anyway).
                      AFAIK warrants for recruit applicants were issuable at all outposts. The applicants had a basic medical and were sent on their way to Naval Base. We usually took 7/9 wks to Finally approve subject to getting Garda Clearance. They weren't finally dressed until finally approved. The educational standard would have to be Inter Certificate or better. Reservists with Service friendly employers should be called up for 6 month stints every 3 or 4 years for sea and professional training in all branches.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post

                        It was also good to see the young techs get their degrees but let us not forget that you could get the same qualification straight from school without the pressures of military life. .
                        and without the pay and/or hands on experience where you will be working.

                        Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
                        using the cadre offices may be less intimidating, (and more secure) than insisting on initial interview beyond the barrack gate. Medical and Security checks can be done quickly when necessary.

                        Perhaps the concept of the "queens shilling" may also inspire recruitment? Agree payment fo applicants of travel expenses to a set maximum on completion (successfully or unsuccessfully) of the recruitment process. Is a potential recruit from Galway going to make the journey to Cork for a fitness test that he or she may or may not pass when his or her dole for the week barely covers the train fare? Are we restricting the best potential candidates due to their economic circumstances?
                        Except in 3 of the 4 NSR locations, they are within barracks

                        Absolutely agree on travel expenses (but I’d say on paid on actually turning up) and/or (it may happen already) send your NS interview board (of what 4 people) to Limerick, Galway and Dublin to conduct interviews. The downside of course being a lot of people will not have seen Haulbowline before. Maybe an overnight like the cadets?


                        Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                        AFAIK warrants for recruit applicants were issuable at all outposts. The applicants had a basic medical and were sent on their way to Naval Base. We usually took 7/9 wks to Finally approve subject to getting Garda Clearance. They weren't finally dressed until finally approved. The educational standard would have to be Inter Certificate or better. Reservists with Service friendly employers should be called up for 6 month stints every 3 or 4 years for sea and professional training in all branches.
                        Fitness, Medicals and security clearance are the major things

                        Also not forgetting your going to have to pay your GP for the initial ok to do the fitness test

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                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                          and without the pay and/or hands on experience where you will be working.


                          Except in 3 of the 4 NSR locations, they are within barracks

                          Absolutely agree on travel expenses (but I’d say on paid on actually turning up) and/or (it may happen already) send your NS interview board (of what 4 people) to Limerick, Galway and Dublin to conduct interviews. The downside of course being a lot of people will not have seen Haulbowline before. Maybe an overnight like the cadets?




                          Fitness, Medicals and security clearance are the major things

                          Also not forgetting your going to have to pay your GP for the initial ok to do the fitness test
                          Which locations do you refer? I know while Limerick is within the Barrack footprint, it is external to the Barracks itself.
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
                            Which locations do you refer? I know while Limerick is within the Barrack footprint, it is external to the Barracks itself.
                            Every days a school day

                            DUNSR - Dublin - within secure CBB
                            WUNSR - Waterford - RDF location outside manned barracks
                            CUNSR - Cork - within secure Naval Base
                            LUNSR - Limerick - see above

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                            • Originally posted by koppiteal View Post
                              Any truth in rumour NSR are being invited to transfer across to NS
                              It was some clown in the RDF or NSR that started that on his own, wasn't authorised by or come from the Naval Service.

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                              • However, any advantage the DF gets with regard to pay will be quickly followed by a reciprocal request from the rest of the civil service.
                                Yup if you go on a three weeker 120 miles off the west coast, be my guest,

                                The criteria needs to be very specific as it was fior the issuing of bond... oh ! there we go precedent already set for tax exemption....
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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