Originally posted by na grohmiti
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
manning levels, the future.
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by Auldsod View PostI agree. Better off not going doing the rabbit hole of that topic. Leave it to boards.ie or politics.ie!
The real initial question is agreeing we need a PDF and how big it should be in an All Arms sense taking into account an Island Country. Then pin down a percentage of GDP to maintain the agreed PDF.
I note no matter how bad things are at home , overseas missions continue with enthusiasm. The NS should likewise, do everything possible to, keep ships at sea.
- Likes 1
Comment
-
Originally posted by ancientmariner View PostThere seems to be some confusion on Strengths in the PDF. If you look at External info on Strengths they estimate the figures as 7340 permanent and 1840 reservists yet the Media are told the Strength is 9000+.
Has the proposed Commission on Defence being appointed and who are the external members. Will they be asking for Public views.
One would assume so
Our Commission looks shaky from the start in that all proposals will have to meet a "Green " set of requirements
I note no matter how bad things are at home , overseas missions continue with enthusiasm. The NS should likewise, do everything possible to, keep ships at sea.
Comment
-
Originally posted by ancientmariner View PostThe real initial question is agreeing we need a PDF and how big it should be in an All Arms sense taking into account an Island Country. Then pin down a percentage of GDP to maintain the agreed PDF.Last edited by EUFighter; 20 September 2020, 14:33.
- Likes 1
Comment
-
Originally posted by EUFighter View PostIMHO we should steer away from the % GDP and instead once we have agreed that we need a DF and that we are prepared to pay for it that the value be set as a % of total government spending. At present 1.3% of government spending in on defence, the average in the EU is 3.8% and is projected to rise to more than 4.8%. To make things easy our long term target should be 5% of government spending.
Over time the PDF, inclusive of all branches, has been redesigned to fit CS view of Defence. Perhaps we need to consider a Defence Tax to buy Boats, planes, and tanks.
Comment
-
Don't call it that in case you draw the ire of AFRI or the Iona insttute.
The DF budget just needs to be ringfenced, so it is not the scrapings from the bowl. Hopefully, the discussion coming out is the importance of Defence Spending, and defence as an insurance policy, that must be paid, regardless of other economic circumstances.
It would be great if DF pay was taken from the defence vote and put into DPER. It gives the outsider an inaccurate view of what Ireland actually spends on Defence.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
Comment
-
Originally posted by ancientmariner View PostThe perennial difficulty with Defence Budgets and Defence spending is that they are rarely fully spent. In fact getting towards a major ordering of maintenance stores a decision came down to cut all spending by 20%, coupled with suspension of recruitment. In a couple of decades of Defence spending Budgets have varied between 250,000,000 and 1.2 billion. The only consistent portion has been provision for Pay and pensions while capital spending is seasonal and dependent on political good will.
Over time the PDF, inclusive of all branches, has been redesigned to fit CS view of Defence. Perhaps we need to consider a Defence Tax to buy Boats, planes, and tanks.
Originally posted by na grohmiti View PostDon't call it that in case you draw the ire of AFRI or the Iona insttute.
The DF budget just needs to be ringfenced, so it is not the scrapings from the bowl. Hopefully, the discussion coming out is the importance of Defence Spending, and defence as an insurance policy, that must be paid, regardless of other economic circumstances.
It would be great if DF pay was taken from the defence vote and put into DPER. It gives the outsider an inaccurate view of what Ireland actually spends on Defence.
If we see transport aircraft, a more capable navy and a revitalised reserve in my time, I'll be happy with that.Last edited by Auldsod; 20 September 2020, 20:49.
- Likes 2
Comment
-
Originally posted by na grohmiti View PostIt would be great if DF pay was taken from the defence vote and put into DPER. It gives the outsider an inaccurate view of what Ireland actually spends on Defence.
What we really need is “Army Pensions” taken out of the “Defence Group”!
Why call it out separately when Gardai for example aren’t
Comment
-
Originally posted by DeV View PostWhat we really need is “Army Pensions” taken out of the “Defence Group”!
Why call it out separately when Gardai for example aren’t
- Likes 2
Comment
-
Originally posted by DeV View PostWhy would it be when all Departments pay is called out in the Estimates under the appropriate vote?
What we really need is “Army Pensions” taken out of the “Defence Group”!
Why call it out separately when Gardai for example aren’t
Vote 20 is Garda. (In the Taoiseachs Vote group) €1.7bn, of which €1.1bn is Pay. Pensions are not included on the Pay subhead, they are part of Appropriations in aid, €33m and are accounted for separately (Subhead B).
Why is Defence pension bill higher than that of AGS so much that is justifies an entire Vote?
Could both votes not be treated equally? I understand Garda is different purely in how the GS receive monies from external sources that the DF do not (collection of fines and gun licence fees for example), but otherwise...
Worth noting that GS get their vehicles via OPW, Garda make request, vehicles are provided to OPW, garda draw down from OPW catalogue and equip as required. DF does its own procurement, possibly adding to costs somewhat.. Army buys Truck, it is theirs from delivery. Garda vehicle remains OPW until accepted by GS.Last edited by na grohmiti; 21 September 2020, 12:40.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
- Likes 1
Comment
-
Originally posted by na grohmiti View PostAs it stands, unless I am missing something, Defence is 2 votes. (In the Finance Vote group).Vote 35 is Army Pensions (Not Naval or Air Corps) Over €254m for 2020. (How are we still spending €229000 on Veterans and spouses of the War of Independence? It was over 100 years ago, we have no citizens over the age of 107). Vote 36 is Defence,(Over €756m) of which €781m is for Actual defence, the remainder which is Wages and Admin.
Vote 20 is Garda. (In the Taoiseachs Vote group) €1.7bn, of which €1.1bn is Pay. Pensions are not included on the Pay subhead, they are part of Appropriations in aid, €33m and are accounted for separately (Subhead B).
Why is Defence pension bill higher than that of AGS so much that is justifies an entire Vote?
Could both votes not be treated equally? I understand Garda is different purely in how the GS receive monies from external sources that the DF do not (collection of fines and gun licence fees for example), but otherwise...
Worth noting that GS get their vehicles via OPW, Garda make request, vehicles are provided to OPW, garda draw down from OPW catalogue and equip as required. DF does its own procurement, possibly adding to costs somewhat.. Army buys Truck, it is theirs from delivery. Garda vehicle remains OPW until accepted by GS.
- Likes 2
Comment
-
Originally posted by A/TEL View PostSevere shortage at LS rank too.
The ship cannot sail without an NCO.
ABs leaving to do any type of work
POs retire after 21 years (old contract) to work part time in other jobs locally.
Coast Guard is still an option but based in Dublin, Valentia and Malin.
Approx 10 15 ex NS currently working in the Coastguard CRS
The solution is simple, make seagoing financially attractive through an large increase in PDA.
At least €50 a day into the hand makes that a reality.
When you consider that a Private soldier earns €83 a day in Portlaoise Prison security duty, it should be equal to that for a sailor at sea.Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
- Likes 1
Comment
-
Originally posted by hptmurphy View PostVery simple solution if PDA was made tax free.
- Likes 1
Comment
-
Originally posted by ancientmariner View PostLooking at payments and pensions to Gardai there is a frightening gap between a garda and a person of Sergeant rank of about 9000 Euro a year. It is all well laid out in an outline, published by ARCO on New Pensions Cap 2020 for those that work in a public Service job after leaving the PDF or the Gardai. I've had no pension adjustment in 10 years other than a 12.5% cut under FEMPI now restored in 2020. In that time certain elements including TD's and Gardai got pay and pension increases.
While the Gross pay of a Sgt may be higher than a garda at top rate at grade, the Sgt is entitled to less allowances than a garda, and in many cases on promotion ends up with less than when they were a Garda. The last FEMPI restoration is due next week I believe, however inflation happened in the meantime, so you are still ending up with less than you should have been getting had FEMPI not happened. Todays € does not have the same buying power that it had in 2009, your shopping basket costs 5.7% more.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
- Likes 2
Comment
-
Originally posted by Auldsod View PostYou've got it in one there.
If we see transport aircraft, a more capable navy and a revitalised reserve in my time, I'll be happy with that.
Comment
Comment