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  • Many have. A previous 2/ic naval service was a DE.
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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    • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
      Certainly looks like that's what they want to happen. Looks like the programme is directed towards filling temporary gaps and not bring in career officers.

      Possibly assumes that the NS would eventually meet the shortfall with officers who have come up through the training pipeline the 'right way' - through a cadet class.

      I'd imagine there still is service skepticism of officers who haven't come up through the rigour of a cadet class.

      @ancientmariner's list details this viewpoint succinctly.

      Has a DE officer ever commanded an NS ship?
      Yes I did, Four for full appointment and one commissioning in Harwich and one relief. The problem with DE's is attitudes within the Service and giving them the tools to do the job seamlessly as I outlined in an earlier post. Another critical problem is fitting in DE officers on the seniority scale, however that has lessened with the introduction of promotion on Merit.

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      • The problem with DE's is attitudes within the Service and giving them the tools to do the job seamlessly as I outlined in an earlier post
        While the secondary appointments are complimentary to the job, they are in fact secondary roles that many could actually be outsourced to senior NCOs, take a PO gunner for example , he would have a greater competency in the weapons aboard ship than the gunnery officer, things like account holding could be run by a PO writer .

        It shouldn't stop direct entries as the scondary tasks can be learned on the job once the primary qualifications have been 'navalized' Have to say I enjoyed working with DE officers as they often had a very refreshing attitude towards command while being absolutely professional in their approach.

        As for officers re enlisting, friend of mine went back into the air corps in his previous rank still young enough to be very effective , but I wonder in terms of the Naval Service how many would re enlist given how limited command opportunities actually are, wouldn't really fancy being a 50 some Lt. watch keeper.
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

        Comment


        • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          While the secondary appointments are complimentary to the job, they are in fact secondary roles that many could actually be outsourced to senior NCOs, take a PO gunner for example , he would have a greater competency in the weapons aboard ship than the gunnery officer, things like account holding could be run by a PO writer .

          It shouldn't stop direct entries as the scondary tasks can be learned on the job once the primary qualifications have been 'navalized' Have to say I enjoyed working with DE officers as they often had a very refreshing attitude towards command while being absolutely professional in their approach.

          As for officers re enlisting, friend of mine went back into the air corps in his previous rank still young enough to be very effective , but I wonder in terms of the Naval Service how many would re enlist given how limited command opportunities actually are, wouldn't really fancy being a 50 some Lt. watch keeper.
          You make reasonable points and I believe NCO's should mentor and advise junior officers. Well said.

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          • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
            While the secondary appointments are complimentary to the job, they are in fact secondary roles that many could actually be outsourced to senior NCOs, take a PO gunner for example , he would have a greater competency in the weapons aboard ship than the gunnery officer, things like account holding could be run by a PO writer .

            It shouldn't stop direct entries as the scondary tasks can be learned on the job once the primary qualifications have been 'navalized' Have to say I enjoyed working with DE officers as they often had a very refreshing attitude towards command while being absolutely professional in their approach.

            As for officers re enlisting, friend of mine went back into the air corps in his previous rank still young enough to be very effective , but I wonder in terms of the Naval Service how many would re enlist given how limited command opportunities actually are, wouldn't really fancy being a 50 some Lt. watch keeper.
            Writers have gone the way of the dinosaurs. There is one Writer left in the entire Navy now, a CPO.

            The SPO operates the majority of accounts onboard ship now.

            PO/Mech and C/ERA the same for the engineering account.

            The holder does very little to be honest, the operator is the SME when it comes to accounts.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
              The holder does very little to be honest
              Don't tell him/her that

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              • A/TEL, thanks for insight but do you know why the holder does very little, could it not be handed over in full to the operator.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
                  A/TEL, thanks for insight but do you know why the holder does very little, could it not be handed over in full to the operator.
                  Generally speaking (there are exceptions) accounts are held by officers and operated by NCOs.

                  It is a control factor. Some elements of transactions for some inventory cannot be completed without the account holder approval.

                  Some accounts are held by NCOs but they get an allowance for the extra responsibility.

                  Comment


                  • And I assume the holder is the one responsible (if someone happens)?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                      Writers have gone the way of the dinosaurs. There is one Writer left in the entire Navy now, a CPO.

                      The SPO operates the majority of accounts onboard ship now.

                      PO/Mech and C/ERA the same for the engineering account.

                      The holder does very little to be honest, the operator is the SME when it comes to accounts.
                      So is admin now done at a divisional level?... if so the requirement for the amount of officers could be reduced ?

                      At one point there were 170 serving officers from a establishment of 1000 persons all ranks , averaging one in seven to be an officer, but when you look back at the amount of serving officer appointments pership at the time , easy to see why

                      At one point in 1988 Eithne had 13 officers out of a crew of 72 persons... making in almost 1 in 5 was an officer..but you could never find them when it came to de ammunitioning or rationing
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                        So is admin now done at a divisional level?... if so the requirement for the amount of officers could be reduced ?

                        At one point there were 170 serving officers from a establishment of 1000 persons all ranks , averaging one in seven to be an officer, but when you look back at the amount of serving officer appointments pership at the time , easy to see why

                        At one point in 1988 Eithne had 13 officers out of a crew of 72 persons... making in almost 1 in 5 was an officer..but you could never find them when it came to de ammunitioning or rationing
                        P31 had an Establishment for 6 officers and generally had 2 Officers under Training (OUT). Going to USA she had 12 officers on board including the Flag Officer and Secretary. In FLY days there would be up to 4 Aer Corps officers on board, but in general never more than CS4 plus OUT's. Certainly NCO's ran the accounts and officers had to sanitise the occasional SNAFU like finding 10 pairs of binoculars in the account and only 5 on board. Damaged ones were being replaced but not written off to Store. Or the SNCO that took base store losses on to his books to help out an audit. You could hardly sleep at night wondering what next. All good fun.

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                        • When I joined her in 1988

                          She had OC, XO, Guns , Nav, Coms, MEO, EO,Junior Engineer and Supplies, that was 9!
                          Within 6 months she had another two S/Lts as understudies to Nav and Gun, 11.....plus an under study EO and Understudy engineer...13.... and when the A/C turned up that as you said added at least 4 more.

                          Always troubled me when a perfectly good ships captain was made XO after he had skippered another ship as opposed to a lead into his own command.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                          • Did all of that benefit the operation the ship was on or just play up to the captain

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                            • Did all that heavy top cover undermine the Naval service or secure its future

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                              • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
                                Did all of that benefit the operation the ship was on or just play up to the captain
                                Different times, different systems. We were still pretty lean man ed then compared to other warships of the same size. Most frigates of the day would have had a crew of over 100, the Leander for example, had a crew of 220 and only 110m compared to eithnes 80m.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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