Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

manning levels, the future.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Different times, different systems. We were still pretty lean man ed then compared to other warships of the same size. Most frigates of the day would have had a crew of over 100, the Leander for example, had a crew of 220 and only 110m compared to eithnes 80m.
    I think the most important thing to be remembered about Eithne from 85 to 90 , was it was still a very steep learning curve in how to operate a ship of that size and complexity and within 10 years her compliment was reduced to approx 50 people and she still ran very efficiently.

    it didn't set any precedents in manning levels but it did highlight the flexibility of a larger vessel than the standard PVs of the time and how ships of a reasonable capacity could be operated without huge increases n manning levels. Bear in mind that a current OPV still operates with the same manning levels as a P20/21 Class despite being considerably larger and more capable.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

    Comment


    • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
      I think the most important thing to be remembered about Eithne from 85 to 90 , was it was still a very steep learning curve in how to operate a ship of that size and complexity and within 10 years her compliment was reduced to approx 50 people and she still ran very efficiently.

      it didn't set any precedents in manning levels but it did highlight the flexibility of a larger vessel than the standard PVs of the time and how ships of a reasonable capacity could be operated without huge increases n manning levels. Bear in mind that a current OPV still operates with the same manning levels as a P20/21 Class despite being considerably larger and more capable.
      t

      In smaller navies, it is necessary for the operational ships to take trainees of all ranks on board, including officers and specialists. Mentoring and on-the-job training has always been a big part of maritime and Naval training. You all have heard of a crew member being described as a "First Tripper" that meant he /she required minding and further training. CS4 lays down the crew and expediency and service requirements sets the numbers actually carried.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
        t

        In smaller navies, it is necessary for the operational ships to take trainees of all ranks on board, including officers and specialists. Mentoring and on-the-job training has always been a big part of maritime and Naval training. You all have heard of a crew member being described as a "First Tripper" that meant he /she required minding and further training. CS4 lays down the crew and expediency and service requirements sets the numbers actually carried.
        Never heard the term first tripper used..... more used to the term 'Red Arse'
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

        Comment


        • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          So is admin now done at a divisional level?... if so the requirement for the amount of officers could be reduced ?

          At one point there were 170 serving officers from a establishment of 1000 persons all ranks , averaging one in seven to be an officer, but when you look back at the amount of serving officer appointments pership at the time , easy to see why

          At one point in 1988 Eithne had 13 officers out of a crew of 72 persons... making in almost 1 in 5 was an officer..but you could never find them when it came to de ammunitioning or rationing

          The Divisional system has been slightly diluted since the Re-Org into Units and Commands in the 2000s.

          The Writers vacancies have been absorbed into the Executive Branch (Seamans) so the majority of vacancies in the Personnel Management Section are now filled by Seamen. Same to be said of Drivers. The daily admin is done by units now with PMS responsible for the major admin.


          Its a bit dysfunctional now with Comms, Diving etc now Sub-Units of Shore Operations Unit which itself is in Naval Operations Command.

          4 Commands: Ops Command, Support Command, Naval College, Naval Headquarters each with its own units contained within (bar NHQ)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
            The Divisional system has been slightly diluted since the Re-Org into Units and Commands in the 2000s.

            The Writers vacancies have been absorbed into the Executive Branch (Seamans) so the majority of vacancies in the Personnel Management Section are now filled by Seamen. Same to be said of Drivers. The daily admin is done by units now with PMS responsible for the major admin.


            Its a bit dysfunctional now with Comms, Diving etc now Sub-Units of Shore Operations Unit which itself is in Naval Operations Command.

            4 Commands: Ops Command, Support Command, Naval College, Naval Headquarters each with its own units contained within (bar NHQ)
            Maybe Support Command needs to be split between Logistics and Administration. Who issues Routine and General Orders, who approves movements, leave , training, promotions, discipline etc. If Seamen rates can fill shore admin. slots how can they rotate to sea without creating disruption in Admin.?

            Comment


            • The Writers vacancies have been absorbed into the Executive Branch (Seamans) so the majority of vacancies in the Personnel Management Section are now filled by Seamen. Same to be said of Drivers. The daily admin is done by units now with PMS responsible for the major admin.
              So the NCO appointments for writers went to Executive branch? possibly explaining the wealth of SCPO ranks with in the division?
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

              Comment


              • Pardon my ignorance but what is the job description of a PO Writer, L/S Writer, etc.? What do they do?
                "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                  Pardon my ignorance but what is the job description of a PO Writer, L/S Writer, etc.? What do they do?
                  They no longer exist, but when they did they filled Administrative appointments in the NS like Discharges, Records etc.

                  AFAIK there was only one seagoing vacancy on Eithne.

                  The remainder worked in PMS and NHQ.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                    So the NCO appointments for writers went to Executive branch? possibly explaining the wealth of SCPO ranks with in the division?

                    I don't think there were any SCPOs in Writers. Just CPOs and one WO.

                    4 SCPO in the Executive branch, 1 as MAA Naval College, 1 in FORST, 1 in LOGS and 1 on Eithne

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                      They no longer exist, but when they did they filled Administrative appointments in the NS like Discharges, Records etc.

                      AFAIK there was only one seagoing vacancy on Eithne.

                      The remainder worked in PMS and NHQ.
                      So clerks?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                        I don't think there were any SCPOs in Writers. Just CPOs and one WO.

                        4 SCPO in the Executive branch, 1 as MAA Naval College, 1 in FORST, 1 in LOGS and 1 on Eithne
                        Writers only ever had one WO. Very nice man, has not been in best of health lately. Both sons followed him into the navy, both left before he did.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                          So clerks?
                          I retired in 1992 and was back to get an officers ID about 4 years ago and met a staffed office with people doing clerical duties and an officer ADMIN sitting at his desk at the top of the office ( open Plan). They may have been seamen branch as I didn't think to look for the WRITERS Flash. In my day there was a warrant officer in Supplies assisted by a SCPO who ran the clothing end. There was another SCPO in the ADMIN office and at least a CPO in HQ. There were a number of SPO's that were exclusively supplies , the SPO matched the Coy QM SGT. and the SCPO matched the Batty QM SGT. Stewards, Writers and Supplies were all in the same branch.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                            I retired in 1992 and was back to get an officers ID about 4 years ago and met a staffed office with people doing clerical duties and an officer ADMIN sitting at his desk at the top of the office ( open Plan). They may have been seamen branch as I didn't think to look for the WRITERS Flash. In my day there was a warrant officer in Supplies assisted by a SCPO who ran the clothing end. There was another SCPO in the ADMIN office and at least a CPO in HQ. There were a number of SPO's that were exclusively supplies , the SPO matched the Coy QM SGT. and the SCPO matched the Batty QM SGT. Stewards, Writers and Supplies were all in the same branch.
                            Sorry, should have said SCPO matched Battalion Quarter Master Sergeant

                            Comment


                            • SCPO and SPO were specifically equated to army quarter master ranks and in the grand scheme of things had no place out side of Supplies, but were liberally scattered among the other divisions as a paygrade without having a precise function. Please don't think I'm understating the role of any of those that hold or have held the rank just giving the history of how the NS acquired a rank that wasn't in the original set up.

                              The fact that I served as a recruit with 3 of the existing Exec Branch SCPOs is quite scary, one of who should have been MAA in my opinion.

                              So clerks?
                              In a nut shell yes, but never referred to as such. Writers or Scribes being the accepted term in Naval circles

                              AFAIK there was only one seagoing vacancy on Eithne
                              Leading Writers position, admin support for the Cox'n, much maligned until you needed a travel warrant !
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                                SCPO and SPO were specifically equated to army quarter master ranks and in the grand scheme of things had no place out side of Supplies, but were liberally scattered among the other divisions as a paygrade without having a precise function. Please don't think I'm understating the role of any of those that hold or have held the rank just giving the history of how the NS acquired a rank that wasn't in the original set up.

                                The fact that I served as a recruit with 3 of the existing Exec Branch SCPOs is quite scary, one of who should have been MAA in my opinion.



                                In a nut shell yes, but never referred to as such. Writers or Scribes being the accepted term in Naval circles



                                Leading Writers position, admin support for the Cox'n, much maligned until you needed a travel warrant !
                                PO Writer position initially .
                                Last edited by Laners; 10 March 2020, 19:31.
                                Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X